Just did a Gov't type cater

smokin Jim · Posted: May 12 2007 Post subject: Just did a Gov't type cater

Just got back from doing a small cater for an employee appreciation dinner for about 40 hungry guys. The fellow that hired me did so on real short notice--this past Monday. He started out wanting for 60 then the next day changed to 40. So I told him that it would be $2.50 per person more for under 50 people. He had no problem with that. Only trouble was he wasn't there today (personal family stuff) and therefore I wasn't able to talk to him about payment. Turns out they (Canadian National Railway) usually goes with a PO and then it takes 30,60 or 90 days to pay. Needless to say this was a surprise to me as no one had mentioned that fact. Anyway I will talk to him the beginning of next week to get this sorted out, because my suppliers don't give me 30 days. I pay when I leave the grocery warehouse. I also had to pay for my gas up front and I had a 120mile round trip to make and the gas prices just went up about 22 cents/gal this morning. Also my helper wanted his pay. I guess I have learned something here. Short notice on this job sure didn't leave a lot of time to investigate this possibility. Not that I would have.
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marvsbbq · BBQ All Star Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 6186

Yea, I do a lot of state agencies here in the capitol and they are usually on a 30 day payment. MOST of time I can get it sooner (if I bug them).

I won't travel that far for less than 100 guests. 25 miles from my house (one way) 50 min. Over that...100 min. Has worked for me for quite some time. But I have to tell you that when I started..I would go just about ANY mileage to get a gig. As time went on and I got busier and more reputation (good one) my policy has changed.

Also, I charge $.65 a mile round trip from my place.
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Harry Nutczak · Posted: May 12 2007 Post subject:

Ouch!!

No contract? Marv put up a great Contract for us to modify into out own special needs.

I hope this doesn;t turn into a wild goose chase for you. did he at least have a valid purchase order for you to bill the company. Call the HQ, explain that this was to be C.O.D. and that you now require full terms in Net 5 days. And any future business will require full payment.
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smokin Jim · Posted: May 12 2007 Post subject:

I am not hitting the panic button on this, YET. I do believe I will get paid, I just don't like finding out on delivery that it could be 30 days. Being only a 4 day notice for this job, there was no way for me to get a contract signed before the event. I do charge mileage and it works out to $.57 per mile round trip. I will let you know the outcome.
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marvsbbq · BBQ All Star Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 6186

i currently have 4 events totaling nearly $5,500 that I am waiting payment on. 2 state agencies and 2 GMAC Mortgage. For state agencies I am set up as an 'approved vendor' so they can direct deposit my payments but it STILL takes them right @ 30 days. GMAC Mortgage pays on the 10th of EACH month for PREVIOUS months what evers. So I SHOULD have payment from GMAC by the time I get home from Vegas next week...hopefully!! The state, I will PROBABLY have to call and 'nudge' them a bit.. Wink

Yea, it sucks a BIG pickle but you either do or don't get the jobs.. As a small business person that is hard to do sometimes....Been there done that.. Wink

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smokin Jim · Posted: May 12 2007 Post subject:

Well I really have a problem, cause if you get a speeding ticket, they want the money right away. If you owe the Gov't some income tax, they want it right away. But I guess it is a one way street with them, their way or the highway.
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3pigsbbq · Posted: May 12 2007 Post subject:

Yeah, my "day job" is middle mgmt with a state agency and it never ceases to amaze me at the different ways the accountants can screw up or delay a payment. And it seems that it always happens to happen to the little guy that can't afford to wait. But naggin' keeps yours on top of the pile! Sooner or later they'll get you paid just so you'll leave 'em alone. Rolling Eyes

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Harry Nutczak · Posted: May 12 2007 Post subject:

Marv, you are established well enough that you can wait a month for payment. and you worked hard to get there too.

And you were aware of the 30 day net terms so you could plan for it.

I could not absorb those cost's for 30 days right now by surprise.

Jim's posting of this should stick in everyones head to "C.Y.A" (cover your arse)
I got this filed away back in the left side of my melon right now of what to watch out for when booking jobs.

And why is it always the ones where it feels like you are performing a favor for them that come back & bite you??

4-days notice, you succesfully pull it off, and then find out later you got to wait 30 days to get paid!!

the guy never mentioned this when booking you?

but devils advocate side says;
why didn't you explain when payment is expected, and due when booking?
This hardship could have been avoided right then. You wouldn't have made money, but it wouldn't have costed you money either.
(I'm not trying to be mean or rude, so please do not get upset)

That just plain old sucks,

Do you care to mention your out of pocket expenses on this gig? not the bill, but your actual cost.
maybe it will stick in us Newbie guys heads a little better that way.
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Just remember that the toes you may step on during your climb to the top will also be attached to the a$$es you'll be forced to kiss on your way back down!

BBQMAN · Posted: May 12 2007 Post subject:

Well, as a learning experience, I would make sure the terms are discussed (whatever they might be) before hand Jim.

I don't wait net 30-60 for anybody. That's a joke gentleman. BTW, not to take away from Marv's success Harry, but his situation is a little different than most. He lives in a Gov't dominated town, and choses/needs to work within their demands. For a small business owner, waiting net 30 (or more) is a huge PITA. My advice to anyone just starting out (that's you Harry) is to not put yourself in that position. Lot's of folks new to this game take every sh!t job that comes along because they either have to or are so hungry that they bite at anything. Same deal with that idiot out of Africa- they take advantage of people that snap up any job that comes along, and get burned in the process.

Last minute jobs like this one Jim should have been paid out of their "petty cash" fund. Wow, we want you to scramble hard to make this happen, spend your time and money for goods and labor, and then we'll pay you when were good and ready?! Shocked

Nope, don't think so!

My same basic terms apply to eveyone, period. Very Happy

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smokin Jim · Posted: May 13 2007 Post subject:

It was a $700 job and I have out of pocket expenses of about $300. I have not ruled out that I will get paid this week yet. I will find out Monday morning and will post the findings. If I have to wait the 30 days I will not be happy and they will know it. Not much I can do except learn from it. Next time I get a last minute job and bust my butt to get it done, the terms of payment will be known up front AND for last minute I will charge a little more(or a lot more) depending on circumstances. If I choose to wait the 30 days, then they will pay more or I won't do the job. It was a really good job, as I was barely on site for 1 hour and they were a great bunch of guys, really.
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marvsbbq · BBQ All Star Joined: 15 May 2005 Posts: 6186

I guess if you really wanted to, you could have in your contract that IF paid by day of event...take 1.5% discount. (Or something along those lines).

That is the way my truck fuel bill comes. So to save a 'few' dollars, I pay by the time stated.

So if you were doing Gov't job, you could have a totally seperate contract for them. In it somewhere, you could state there is a 'service charge' of X amount and if paid by date of services, you may take a discount for that same X amount.

No, I don't have that verbage in my contract but I can afford to wait and I know I WILL get it sooner or later so I wait...and wait...lol

You have to remember most everybody (clients) have their 'rules' that they have to go by. Lilke BBQMAN said, you either play along or say "Sorry I can't abide by those rules" and move on and HOPE the phone rings soon with another job.
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smokin Jim · Posted: May 13 2007 Post subject:

It is not going to "break the bank" if I have to wait the 30 days, BUT I did learn that I will make things very clear from now on as to how payment is expected. The thing that pi$$es me off the most is the way they "sprung" this on me. I'll find out tomorrow if I have to wait or not.
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Harry Nutczak · Posted: May 14 2007 Post subject:

you know, Marv has suggested a great incentive for these Govt. 30-day net. jobs.

Charge interest if they do not pay upon (or before) services rendered, or get a discount if they pay as per exactly your terms as set forth in your contract.

I am defenitely using Jim's bad experience as a learning tool.
And I feel bad that Jim had to learn the hard way.

I defenitely owe him one for posting this little tidbit!
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Just remember that the toes you may step on during your climb to the top will also be attached to the a$$es you'll be forced to kiss on your way back down!

smokin Jim · Posted: May 14 2007 Post subject:

Hey Harry, you don't owe me anything. This is what this type of forum is all about. If we can all learn something from the experiences of others, then it is all worth while. Thanks for all the positive feed back on this thread, it does help.
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BBQMAN · Posted: May 14 2007 Post subject:

Don't know about you Marv, but I don't sit around waiting for the phone to ring! Wink

I have a job the beggining of June for one of the world's largest defense contractors (repeat client) for an open house of 1,500 guests.

The food bill is $5,600 (hotdogs, drinks, chips). The rentals (tents, tables, chairs, dunkin' booth, cotton candy machine, coolers etc.) is $3,200. Now to reserve the rental equipment it takes a very large down payment, and the balance is due before the event. The rental companies don't do "net 30-60", they want there money NOW, go figure!

The home office is out of state, and they always send me a check to cover my out of pocket expenses immediately. They pay for the food expenses the day of with a check that is drawn weeks before, and always include a generous tip as well!

Now believe you me, this client probably has an agreement with most vendors for net 90, maybe even net 120 which is common these days.

My point is, as a family business they realize we can't wait that long for payment. Sure, like Marv I could afford wait for payment, but why should I? I have to pay for the rentals up front, and the crew wants to be paid day of- and so do I! Very Happy

Thanks for sharing Jim, this has actually been a very interesting thread! Very Happy

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