Min guest count vs Min sale...

[marvsbbq]

I know most of us have a 'minimum' guest count we cater to @ our regular posted prices. (mine is 50). Some of you actually charge more per person for less than your min guest count.

I guess I kind of do the same thing but would like to 'word' it differently. I don't want the potential client to 'think' I will only cook for 50+ guests so they don't even call me in the first place..

I was thinking of saying "We have a minimum order of $XXX.XX before tax and grautity" This way I could take those smaller events and not have to cook for 50 (they always want the food for 50 cause they paid for 50)

I am thinking that MOST would add appitizers, drinks or desserts to bring up the price to meet my min rather than give me the extra cash...which is fine by me.
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[sseige]

Marv a friend of mine alerted me to a trend starting on the east cost and this may have started at some other place and time but from what he said Small pig drop- offs and take-outs for luncheons and small parties are starting to grow in requests I have a rough idea on pricing but New York to Michigan doesn't translate very well Anyway 30 lb and up pigs and take out sides (beans,corn,slaw, redbeans & rice) or what ever you like to use. THE RETAIL PRICE IN NEW YORK IS 1/2 PIG ABOUT 15 LBS (RAW WEIGHT) FOR UP TO 6 PEOPLE WITH ALL SIDES $240.00 OR $480 FOR A FULL HOG ETC. 10-12 GUESTS. I know you have the ability to do multiple pigs at one time I think I can do 5.
I think all they did to get started was fliers, pictures and maybe samples to office buildings, hospitals and such.
I think I'm going to give this a try and have found a nice supply of 30 lb and up pigs. Containers for doing this are my sticking point any ideas?
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[Harry Nutczak]

How about this, Do a little web search and see what other companies do.

here is a link to one of my favorite "Q" places that does catering. And I feel the prices are way out of line for dining in, you decide.

http://hungryharrysfamousbbq.net/
the site requires either active-X, or Flash media to view. (I hate when webmasters do that)

they set up a preset menu for small groups and how many (estimated) it will serve.

Ok for your minumums, only let them in on the minimum charge when they are ready to book. that way you got them hooked, I would keep that out of print and only have that in your contract.

So what is your minimum amount that will get you cooking?
or what is your lowest per-plate charge that you currently do. Figure that and multiply that by your current Fifty-plate minimum and that is your minimum, right?

If you had an actual restaurant (Hint, Hint) this could be a whole lot easier.

According to your state & local laws out there, can you prepare food for pick-up, or drop-off without doing the cooking onsite?

I think a minimum booking charge sounds alot better than a minimum head-count charge. that way you do not need to cook for fifty to make the customer happy since they are paying for fifty. but they will gladly pay the minimum and you don't need to cook for fifty and this will raise your margins as well since you didn't back yourself into that "fifty dinners" deal.
But you already know that, otherwise you wouldn't have posted this thread.

I am guessing you lost a group already because of the way you worded it.

Am I right?
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[marvsbbq]

Actually I have lost several gigs due to my '50 guest min'. BUT that being said, the reason I went to that min in the first place is that we found ourselves booked for more SMALL parties (for some odd reason they are the ones that call first and the first caller gets us). So when/if a larger group DID call....we were already booked..I REALLY don't mind doing the smaller gigs during the week (keeps the cash flowing) but I really don't want to do it for my 'regular'price...As I have learned, you don't make much $$$ out there cooking for small groups. But if they (client) wants us, they will have to 'anti-up'.

Not sure I like the idea of not advertising the 'min' at all. Just tell them AFTER we get them REALLY intersted in booking. Oh by the way.....
That might work, have to play with it and see I guess.
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[chef_hog]

I've had a couple of customers that have been at other events that I have done and called me about doing food for them. I have a 25 person minimum on my menu but have done drop off for 10 people at the menu price. I give them everything they need to set up and drop it off at thier house. I get around the local law by doing it on site at my place same as I would if I went to thiers. It works for me. If a larger party books then I just include cooking the drop off at the same time and kill two birds with one stone and still make the cash for 2 parties.

[marvsbbq]

[Harry Nutczak]

I do not think it is the cooking on your property that is the problem, it is the transporting of cooked food that gets you in trouble. I just re-read this for my state and it is not that clear.

I have been through the WI Health Dept. food code (all 144 pages of it) several times. and they basically modeled their system after the federal food code. (according to a footnote in the document, and if there is such a thing as a fed. code for foods.)

it might be a completely different thing if the customer were to pick it up though. if you can show it was bought fresh, not stored at your home, and cooked immediately after purchase and the customer picks it up as you are finishing it. No hot storage, & no cold storage of their product

When you look at it from a common sense perspective, what exactly is different about cooking in your own driveway/yard compared to the customers property? nothing I can currently figure.

but the storage of "short shelf-life" foods at a non-commercial place is where they get you. you need an inspection and permitting for that, right?

is this a loophole you could use to stay legal? then you could accept small parties for pick-up only.


I am avoiding the "Catering" license & inspection deal by technically calling myself a "private rental chef" According to our food laws, I can do that with no permitting and inspections, as long as I shop for the client immediately before cooking the food, or I can store the raw product at their house, Not mine. and all prep work is done at their location. I cant even season the foods unless I am onsite. And I do not have a problem with that.

I am working with one of the local meat markets, I buy from them exclusively, and they will hold the meats for me until needed. That way I am staying legal, and contamination free.

I can link to the WI food code if anyone is interested. (supposedly the same as the fed regs)
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Just remember that the toes you may step on during your climb to the top will also be attached to the a$$es you'll be forced to kiss on your way back down!

[marvsbbq]

Harry, You wrote: I do not think it is the cooking on your property that is the problem, it is the transporting of cooked food that gets you in trouble. I just re-read this for my state and it is not that clear.


Cooking on MY property is PART of the problem and here is why.....The HD THINKS you would not be as 'clean and tidy' cooking at home as you are when you set up from scratch at the customer's site...Be it a park, their own yard or what ever, you start with fresh clean table covers, utinsels etc. They THINK at home you tend to 'cut more corners' and not be as sanitary as you should be. Then yes, there is the storing and transporting as MOST people are not able to store personal stuff away from customer stuff. THEN there is the keeping hot..

You also wrote: I have been through the WI Health Dept. food code (all 144 pages of it) several times. and they basically modeled their system after the federal food code. (according to a footnote in the document, and if there is such a thing as a fed. code for foods.)

Yes, there is a federal food code and MOST states model most if not all of those codes into their own codes. So most states are 'stricter' than federal codes.

You also wrote: When you look at it from a common sense perspective, what exactly is different about cooking in your own driveway/yard compared to the customers property? nothing I can currently figure.

Although MOST of the health codes are 'common sense' to a properly trained food handler, I think the HD figures we don't have a 'lick of common sense' and therefore treats EVERYONE the same instead of on an individual case.
It seems to me that all the HD codes are written with the 'worst case senerio'. But as you (of all people) know, there are 'dumb a$$ people' out there in the food industry doing 'dumb a$$ things' that are causing our local HD's to have to make all these rules and regualtions to keep 'joe public' safe.

You also wrote: but the storage of "short shelf-life" foods at a non-commercial place is where they get you. you need an inspection and permitting for that, right?

This is a 'no go' according to the HD and to do so you MUST be licensed, inspected and permitted as a 'comercial kitchen' Which is VERY costly and hard to get approval in MOST residential areas.

You also wrote: is this a loophole you could use to stay legal? then you could accept small parties for pick-up only

I know a LOT of small caterers that DO things at home (or non-approved facility). To do this, you are really putting your career/business on the line. Maybe the first time they just warn you but once you are on their 'list' to watch...look out!

The personal chef thing is a good idea. I belive here in our state at least, the CLIENT even has to purchase the food. The cook can't TOUCH it until it is in the clients home. But then there are no limits what the chef can do.

Lot of people make big bucks doing this...in the right area.
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[Jeff T]

Say there Harry and marv also
about this "personal chef" thing....
I talked to my HD person and was told that this "hired hand" type of deal is ok with them also with the same requirements that you fellas are talking about ie: no permitts or inspections needed, cook can't touch the meat until it is in the clients home etc...
To load up the pit, tools & fuel cook there meat on-site what would you fellas charge for a hired hand type of a deal like this? By the hour or by the day????

[marvsbbq]

For what you are asking....by the hour

I should also add, rental fee for MY equipment.
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[Harry Nutczak]

under the hired-chef deal, My state allows me to "Shop" for the client immediately before the event. Off the record speaking with my local HD guy, I told him what my plans are, and he ok'd it verbally.

And a "BBQ service" is still considered a "Hired-Chef" in that hired-chefs are allowed to use their own equipment when brought to the place of the party.

The thing that really defines this, The One customer is paying you for the service, you are not charging each & every guest for their meal personally.

I do not know if i could price by the hour, I would need to charge by the event. My time gets priced anywhere between $85.00 to $135 per hour. and people tend to freak out a bit on that.

but at the same time, you just give them a full-gig cost (including the food) they find it more acceptable.

So Ezzy has a spreadsheet to help figure yields and pricing, You would be safe just using that as a guideline to start.
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Just remember that the toes you may step on during your climb to the top will also be attached to the a$$es you'll be forced to kiss on your way back down!

[marvsbbq]

Harry, just curious, why would you want to be a personal chef VS a caterer???
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[Harry Nutczak]

[marvsbbq]

Ok Harry, let me ask it this way.....What do you charge to be a 'personal chef'? Say if you were to cook (on your equipment) Ribs and chicken with 3 sides for 100 guests AT the site...as a PC, what would your fee be as a PC??
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[Harry Nutczak]

[marvsbbq]

Well, I SUPPOSE with you as a PC, I would be at least PAYING for the food in advance. So let's go with your 'suggested' menu of Spare ribs, 1/4 chicken, slaw, baked beans, ceasar salad and corn bread.
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[Harry Nutczak]

ok, give me a little bit to figure it out.
and i will edit this post with my totals.

I just got hit with a honey-do, Give me a few hours.

But my formula would be a 35% food cost as my planned pricing.

just like catering, but figure my fee off their retail cost, compare it to my wholesale cost, and split the difference or round either up or down
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Just remember that the toes you may step on during your climb to the top will also be attached to the a$$es you'll be forced to kiss on your way back down!

[marvsbbq]

Ok, I THINK I just figured out WHAT I have been trying to get answered.

As a PC you cook for ONE family ALL the time and USUALLY get paid by the hour or by the month...Be it every meal or just 1. You work for the one and only client. As a 'Caterer' you work for 'MULTIPLE' clients and get paid by the job depending on what your prepare and time involved with you bringing the foods either already prepared or prepared on site but YOU supply ALL foods. The client does NOT pay for supplies seperately.

I am not sure where you are getting this 'BBQ Service' term at or the reason behind you using that term. When I contacted the HD in my area asking about this 'term/phrase, they had NO idea what I was talking about. Saying IF you cook and/or serve on site, you are a 'caterer' period.

Don't ya wish every agency was on the SAME page???
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[Harry Nutczak]

ok,
I just got done doing the honey-do list for the day which consisted of dropping 1 tree, and sectioning 4 trees I dropped yesterday.
(her way of payback, for me disappearing out in the woods for 4.5 days, and not bringing her along)


here is what I came up wth for cost if the customer paid for the food at whatever cost they got it from, I pulled per pound cost's out of the air becuase i did not feel like calling my meat guy to get actuals.

I based the ribs at $2.57/pound
Bird at $2.10/pound quartered, not whole
and estimated beans, slaw, salad & cornbread (low-balled it too)

$1,450 +tax @6.5% is $94.25 for a grand total of
$1544.25 of Goes in my pocket money!

so the gig would cost the customer about $20.00 per plate total cost roughly.
I am doing my math on paper, and headwork, so it is not fully accurate.
If I call myself a caterer, that means I need licensing and inspection onsite before the gig, (Sometimes) other times they just grant a variance over the phone without an onsite inspect.

Figure about a 12 hour day and that comes out to; $128/ hour, so that fit well within my projected $85 to $135 an hour as expected.


Does this figure on your end too?

Thanks for quizzing me
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Just remember that the toes you may step on during your climb to the top will also be attached to the a$$es you'll be forced to kiss on your way back down!

[BBQMAN]

I'm currently paying $1.66 for spares by the case (9 slabs), and $.89 for quartered chickens by the case (22 birds, 88 pcs).

Sounds like you need to check the "air" a little more throughly, or find a new food provider Harry!

I would expect a fellow with your "credentials" to come at least a little closer my man! I'd be willing to bet that Emeril and Bobby don't have this problem!
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BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005.