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handicap18
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Burlington, MA
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 Posted: Mar 31 2007 Post subject: Char-Broil Silver Smoker Modifications |
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I tried doing a search, but didn't really come up with anything.
I've seen modifications for the beginner off-set smokers, but it looks like the are for other models.
I've done 2 modifications to mine: extended the smoke stack down to the grate and also moved the thermemoter down close to the grates.
What I'm looking to do is add a heat diffuser. 2 issues I have. First finding the material (aka metal). Can that be found at Lowe's or Home Depot and what gauge? Also, for this specific model what is the best way to bend it. The issue is that there is a small lip protruding out into the cooking chamber. Its not flat. I'm guessing that it is Char Broils cheep way of making a diffuser.  Its also a weird shape so using a straight piece of metal would be a pain.
I'm going into my 3rd season with this smoker. I don't do a lot of smoking. Just your basic weekend smoking about every other or 3rd weekend (with 3 kids under the age of 5 it makes doing adult things difficult.  ). I'll probably have this smoker for at least a few more years so I'd like to get to be more efficient (sp?).
I know that not having the diffuser is causing hot spots and it makes for a difficult cook. I"m going to smoke some ribs on Sun and I'm thinking for a temporary fix I'll just use some aluminum foil (many many layers) and attach it as best I can.
Any thoughts and/or suggestions.
Thanks guys.
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Oregon smoker
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WBOGGS
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Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mar 31 2007 Post subject: |
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handicap18, now ya got to fix that thing so it cooks right. Take a bean can and cut the lip off and stick it in the bottom of that chimney so the heat has a chance to be at the grate level. Right now it goes across the top and out the chimney above the food. Also, get a big drill bit and drill a hole for that thermometer just to the right of the cook chamber handle (right above the grate) so you know how hot it is where the food cooks, not at the top (heat rises remember). Then get some wire coat hangers and fashion some hangers so you can hang foil cookie sheets right under the grate so you can block the heat from going straight up and across the cooker above the food. The cookie sheets will force the heat under them and will come around the sides where the food is. You have to butt the cookie sheets right up to the wall with the fire box on it so the heat cant rise. See Pictures:
   
I also fashioned a charcoal basket out of wire fencing:
Any questions, PM me. |
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handicap18
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Burlington, MA
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| Posted: Apr 01 2007 Post subject: |
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| WBOGGS wrote: | | handicap18, now ya got to fix that thing so it cooks right. Take a bean can and cut the lip off and stick it in the bottom of that chimney so the heat has a chance to be at the grate level. Right now it goes across the top and out the chimney above the food. Also, get a big drill bit and drill a hole for that thermometer just to the right of the cook chamber handle (right above the grate) so you know how hot it is where the food cooks, not at the top (heat rises remember). |
I've done that already, but used some thin metal for a dryer:
| WBOGGS wrote: | | Then get some wire coat hangers and fashion some hangers so you can hang foil cookie sheets right under the grate so you can block the heat from going straight up and across the cooker above the food. The cookie sheets will force the heat under them and will come around the sides where the food is. You have to butt the cookie sheets right up to the wall with the fire box on it so the heat cant rise. |
That is a very good and very inexpensive way of doing it. I like that. I'll go out tonight and get a few cookie sheets and set it up before I smoke some ribs tomorrow.
| WBOGGS wrote: | | I also fashioned a charcoal basket out of wire fencing: |
Not a bad way of doing it. For now I'm just using 2 grates that the charcoal sits on. Gives me an extra inch or so from using just one. I'll see how that works out. It is easy to move around and I can make it 2 or 3 inches or more off the bottom than it already is:
Thanks for the imput. I appreciate it.
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handicap18
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Burlington, MA
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| Posted: Apr 01 2007 Post subject: |
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I like what Alien BBQ did with the heat diffuser. Though when I look at the other beginner pits the opening from the firebox to the cooking chamber is flat all around it on both sides.
The Char Broil has this stupid little 1 inch lip:
and for someone like me who is somewhat handy except when it comes to metal this seems to throw a big monkey wrench in making something to fit over this. For now I'll go with the cookie sheet el cheepo and easy version. If that works out, then I'll look to find some metal sheets to fabricate a more perminant diffuser.
I think, looking at the picture again, that I might be able to get a screw and screw one end of the cookie sheet to the bolt sticking out of the upper middle part of the opening. Then use the metal coat hanger on the other end. hmmmmm
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WBOGGS
BBQ Fan
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Apr 01 2007 Post subject: |
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Pretty aggressive modifications; so aggressive it is trying to defy gravity.
The second shelf looks like a great idea but it doesn't allow the chimney inlet to reach the lowest cooking level; there has to be a pretty big temperature difference as a result.
The duct work would work great if it were a forced air system; bad enough an offset smoker expects heat to go to the right but that system expects it to even go down first; YIKES!! The way to get heat to go to the right as best as it can is to have huge air volume free flowing from the fire on the left and the chimney on the right; that's why there's such a big hole between the fire and cook chamber. That duck work seriously restricts air volume; that has to be incredibly inefficient. To have that work very well would require a fan in the air intake.
Other modifications I have seen from the fire box suggests a metal plate attached to the top bolt holding the fire box on that is directed down from that bolt to about halfway between the cook grate and the bottom and abo0ut or more than half way across the cook area. Once again expecting heat to do what it absolutely wont; go down. That's why my approach of cookie sheets right under the cook grate allows for maximum air flow without hoping heat will go down by following a piece of metal facing down. Heat will only flow up unless you restrict an upward flow then it will flow across a ceiling till it can find a place to go up.
The best and most efficient way to alter heat travel without the force of a fan is to direct it as it goes up. I know that's a very difficult thing for people here to understand; but no matter how much you argue to the contrary; heat rises. |
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vtbbq
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Apr 02 2007 Post subject: |
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The best and most efficient way to alter heat travel without the force of a fan is to direct it as it goes up. I know that's a very difficult thing for people here to understand; but no matter how much you argue to the contrary; heat rises. |
No offense, but do you really have to post this over and over. The guy just wants help with his smoker, not to be told his smoker isn't as good as yours. I know you like your vert best and that's fine. Everyone knows by now. Just let it rest.
Oh, and most scientists would disagree with you. "Heat" doesn't rise. Hot air rises because as air is heated it becomes less dense than the cooler air around it. Heat itself moves via thermal dynamics in other words conduction, convection, and radiation. When I fly my rc planes I go hunting for thermals to ride with my planes. Those shoots of rising hot air were created by heat that came DOWN from the sun and heated a spot on the ground. I know this is a bbq forum, so this may be a horrid thing to say, but try broiling a steak. You'll see heat can do the opposite of rising 
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allsmokenofire
BBQ All Star
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Apr 02 2007 Post subject: |
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| vtbbq wrote: | | Quote: |
The best and most efficient way to alter heat travel without the force of a fan is to direct it as it goes up. I know that's a very difficult thing for people here to understand; but no matter how much you argue to the contrary; heat rises. |
No offense, but do you really have to post this over and over. The guy just wants help with his smoker, not to be told his smoker isn't as good as yours. I know you like your vert best and that's fine. Everyone knows by now. Just let it rest.
Oh, and most scientists would disagree with you. "Heat" doesn't rise. Hot air rises because as air is heated it becomes less dense than the cooler air around it. Heat itself moves via thermal dynamics in other words conduction, convection, and radiation. When I fly my rc planes I go hunting for thermals to ride with my planes. Those shoots of rising hot air were created by heat that came DOWN from the sun and heated a spot on the ground. I know this is a bbq forum, so this may be a horrid thing to say, but try broiling a steak. You'll see heat can do the opposite of rising |
Welcome to the dark side my brother!
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WBOGGS
BBQ Fan
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Apr 02 2007 Post subject: |
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| vtbbq wrote: | | Quote: |
The best and most efficient way to alter heat travel without the force of a fan is to direct it as it goes up. I know that's a very difficult thing for people here to understand; but no matter how much you argue to the contrary; heat rises. |
Oh, and most scientists would disagree with you. "Heat" doesn't rise. Hot air rises because as air is heated it becomes less dense than the cooler air around it. Heat itself moves via thermal dynamics in other words conduction, convection, and radiation. When I fly my rc planes I go hunting for thermals to ride with my planes. Those shoots of rising hot air were created by heat that came DOWN from the sun and heated a spot on the ground. I know this is a bbq forum, so this may be a horrid thing to say, but try broiling a steak. You'll see heat can do the opposite of rising |
Pardon me while I try and get up off the floor from laughing my ass off; I just cant stop laughing.
You try real hard to sound like a scientist but that's all the biggest bunch of hooey I ever saw.
Your rc plane rides thermals LMAO, LMAO, LMAO; what is it a glider? And how many miles do you fly your rc plane to find the thermals? LMAO, LMAO, LMAO???
Scientists say heat doesn't rise it jsut goes up??? LMAO, LMAO, LMAO You should get an award for that genius statement.
And before I find I have to describe what conduction, convection, and radiation really means all over again, jsut look the words up in a dictionary; that alone will give you a hint that you havent a sliver of a clue what you're talking about. Tell me; does your rc plane ride on conduction, convection, or radiation? LMAO, LMAO, LMAO
I'll offer you some advice; do yourself a favor and just disappear from this thread in hopes people forget how incredibly ridiculous you look pretending to be a scientist and the ridiculous things you expect people to believe. rc plane flying thermals; LMAO, LMAO, LMAO
We have definitely hit bottom. This brings to mind a little saying that you cant teach pigs to sing, and if you try you only piss off the pigs.
vtbbq, I want to thank you for this post; you have given me the best story ever to tell over a few beers. I'll have to be sure to print it out because I'm not sure people would believe it. LMAO, LMAO, LMAO
Singing lesson is over; talk among yourselves. |
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vtbbq
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Apr 02 2007 Post subject: |
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Wow buddy, you sure are something special. I really wasn't trying to pick a fight with you. I was imply asking you to lay off a bit. I mean come on buddy do you really need to be so hostile? The most important thing here is talking about making some que however you so choose to do it. I don't care if you use a zig zag smoker, we all have the same damn goal here. If all you want to do is fight why don't you just move along. Do you really gain anything from ranting on some message board?
My comment about science and "heat" was correct. I am sorry that upsets you, but honestly man, relax. I was just ribbing ya that you were saying "heat" rises because it doesn't. If you said "hot air" rises you would be correct (and yes the rising of hot air does have implications on how the cooker cooks). You are not completely wrong, but you are not completely right either. Heat is energy, and energy doesn't care about gravity. Matter cares about gravity. When heat is applied to fluid matter (water, air, etc) it effects it in such a way that there are gravitational implications, hence hot air rising.
As for the RC plane, you really don't know what you are talking about, so why try to slam me there? Come on man, like I said, relax. The planes I fly are light weight electric powered planes made out of foam. I don't have to fly miles to find thermals. I'd have to try flying from my car to do that, and while that sounds fun I doubt the police would like it I know where to look for the thermals. Generally parking lots or tennis courts are the best bet for me. Sometimes you find one sometimes you don't. Once you find it you just do small circles to stay in it. If you get a really good one you have to actually forcibly drive the plane out of it. Through all of this I am not riding "heat" I am riding air, because air is what causes lift.
Please feel free to print my post and share it with whatever friends you may have. I'm sure that will make them think you are cool Man, if someone pointing out a flaw in your statement on a message board is the best story you have ever had to tell over a beer you really need to get out more.
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Apr 02 2007 Post subject: |
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| WBOGGS wrote: | | vtbbq wrote: | | Quote: |
The best and most efficient way to alter heat travel without the force of a fan is to direct it as it goes up. I know that's a very difficult thing for people here to understand; but no matter how much you argue to the contrary; heat rises. |
Oh, and most scientists would disagree with you. "Heat" doesn't rise. Hot air rises because as air is heated it becomes less dense than the cooler air around it. Heat itself moves via thermal dynamics in other words conduction, convection, and radiation. When I fly my rc planes I go hunting for thermals to ride with my planes. Those shoots of rising hot air were created by heat that came DOWN from the sun and heated a spot on the ground. I know this is a bbq forum, so this may be a horrid thing to say, but try broiling a steak. You'll see heat can do the opposite of rising |
Pardon me while I try and get up off the floor from laughing my ass off; I just cant stop laughing.
You try real hard to sound like a scientist but that's all the biggest bunch of hooey I ever saw.
Your rc plane rides thermals LMAO, LMAO, LMAO; what is it a glider? And how many miles do you fly your rc plane to find the thermals? LMAO, LMAO, LMAO???
Scientists say heat doesn't rise it jsut goes up??? LMAO, LMAO, LMAO You should get an award for that genius statement.
And before I find I have to describe what conduction, convection, and radiation really means all over again, jsut look the words up in a dictionary; that alone will give you a hint that you havent a sliver of a clue what you're talking about. Tell me; does your rc plane ride on conduction, convection, or radiation? LMAO, LMAO, LMAO
I'll offer you some advice; do yourself a favor and just disappear from this thread in hopes people forget how incredibly ridiculous you look pretending to be a scientist and the ridiculous things you expect people to believe. rc plane flying thermals; LMAO, LMAO, LMAO
We have definitely hit bottom. This brings to mind a little saying that you cant teach pigs to sing, and if you try you only piss off the pigs.
vtbbq, I want to thank you for this post; you have given me the best story ever to tell over a few beers. I'll have to be sure to print it out because I'm not sure people would believe it. LMAO, LMAO, LMAO
Singing lesson is over; talk among yourselves. |
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently in Texas...
"Jesus may love you, but everyone else thinks you're an a$$hole."
Even found a similar pic for everyone:
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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allsmokenofire
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Apr 02 2007 Post subject: |
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Is it just me....or can anyone else see a consensus forming??
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Mike
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Apr 02 2007 Post subject: |
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Do we need a poll?
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handicap18
Newbie
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Burlington, MA
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| Posted: Apr 03 2007 Post subject: |
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Ok, I added the cookie sheets and they definately made a difference. Thank you WBOGGS for the suggestion.
I still haven't gotten an answer about the sheets of metal and where they can be found. Even looking at the other modification threads it doesn't say where to obtain nor does it say what gauge.
That being said,,,,,
I think we've run the course on the heat rises vertical vs offset issue. The horse has definately been shot, multiple times, over and over. Its getting old. Plus that discussion is already taking place in another thread and it should be left there, though honestly WBOGGS, the more you harp on it the more of a thread killer you will become and the less seriously people will take your posts. Again, I thank you for very good suggestion on the cookie sheets. If you try to keep your posts more like that then there will be a lot less tension and tormented post discussion on heat rising and we can get on with cooking.
Remember the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf? I don't think you want to be remembered as the guy who cried heat rises. Know when to pick your battles and know when enough is enough and when to call it quits.
Thanks again for the help.
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Apr 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| handicap18 wrote: |
I still haven't gotten an answer about the sheets of metal and where they can be found. Even looking at the other modification threads it doesn't say where to obtain nor does it say what gauge.
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Not sure which sheet of metal you are asking about, but I'll venture it's for the diffuser. My diffuser is 16ga plain steel. It was 12" wide and 24" long, but I cut it down to 14" or 16" if I remember correctly. You'll want plain steel or stainless steel. Don't use zinc plated in any form, bright or galvanized. I used existing hardware bolts to mount mine, but I don't see why you couldn't drill through the lip for a 1/4-20 bolt or self-tapping machine screw, but again, just don't use a galvanized or bright zinc plated screw to do so. I bought my sheet steel at a farm supply store like TSC, but your Lowe's or HD might have it too. My SS hardware all came from Lowe's.
I will double check my thread and add the gauge info and sources if it not already in there...
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
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| Posted: Apr 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| handicap18 wrote: | Ok, I added the cookie sheets and they definately made a difference. Thank you WBOGGS for the suggestion.
I still haven't gotten an answer about the sheets of metal and where they can be found. Even looking at the other modification threads it doesn't say where to obtain nor does it say what gauge.
That being said,,,,,
I think we've run the course on the heat rises vertical vs offset issue. The horse has definately been shot, multiple times, over and over. Its getting old. Plus that discussion is already taking place in another thread and it should be left there, though honestly WBOGGS, the more you harp on it the more of a thread killer you will become and the less seriously people will take your posts. Again, I thank you for very good suggestion on the cookie sheets. If you try to keep your posts more like that then there will be a lot less tension and tormented post discussion on heat rising and we can get on with cooking.
Remember the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf? I don't think you want to be remembered as the guy who cried heat rises. Know when to pick your battles and know when enough is enough and when to call it quits.
Thanks again for the help. |
On my mods, I have used everything from 16 gauge to 10 gauge, both stainless and regular steel. If you really want to make an good diffuser, then use cardboard to custom fit (cut) your shield before you cut it. My metal diffusers try and follow the curvature of the pit as they go. I used cardboard (trial and error) for this, and it is my best suggestion for you.
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Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
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| Posted: Apr 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| WBOGGS wrote: |
Pretty aggressive modifications; so aggressive it is trying to defy gravity.
The second shelf looks like a great idea but it doesn't allow the chimney inlet to reach the lowest cooking level; there has to be a pretty big temperature difference as a result.
The duct work would work great if it were a forced air system; bad enough an offset smoker expects heat to go to the right but that system expects it to even go down first; YIKES!! The way to get heat to go to the right as best as it can is to have huge air volume free flowing from the fire on the left and the chimney on the right; that's why there's such a big hole between the fire and cook chamber. That duck work seriously restricts air volume; that has to be incredibly inefficient. To have that work very well would require a fan in the air intake.
Other modifications I have seen from the fire box suggests a metal plate attached to the top bolt holding the fire box on that is directed down from that bolt to about halfway between the cook grate and the bottom and abo0ut or more than half way across the cook area. Once again expecting heat to do what it absolutely wont; go down. That's why my approach of cookie sheets right under the cook grate allows for maximum air flow without hoping heat will go down by following a piece of metal facing down. Heat will only flow up unless you restrict an upward flow then it will flow across a ceiling till it can find a place to go up.
The best and most efficient way to alter heat travel without the force of a fan is to direct it as it goes up. I know that's a very difficult thing for people here to understand; but no matter how much you argue to the contrary; heat rises. |
yeah, your right,......it probably would never work
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Last edited by Alien BBQ on Apr 03 2007; edited 1 time in total |
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WBOGGS
BBQ Fan
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Apr 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| handicap18 wrote: | | the more you harp on it the more of a thread killer you will become and the less seriously people will take your posts. |
Actually the inverse is more true; the more people battle nature and say I'm wrong in spite of the facts, the more I know who has a clue as to how smokers work and why. Teaches me who to take seriously, see, I have the valuable knowledge and understand how heat travels, they cant take that away from me and the charcoal companies love how they feel about their offsets. You experienced the value of the knowledge which is the best you can do to help an offset without adding to heat movement friction.
This problem is very common among the larger forums where people that spend more time in front of a computer posting gibberish and have thousands of posts under their belt are thought to be experts no matter how stupid they are. Hopefully when I get a couple thousand more posts I wont start saying stupid things like "Scientists disagree with the notion that heat rises, it doesn't rise it goes up because it's lighter air". You have to laugh at the lengths men will go to to try and save face.
Enjoy your new smoker mods. |
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CtheSmoke
BBQ Super Fan
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 435
Location: SW Michigan
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| Posted: Apr 03 2007 Post subject: |
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Well, I was going to chime in but it seems WBOGGS has it covered....
Guess I don't need to tell him charcoal/wood doesn't burn...
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vtbbq
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Apr 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| BoilermakerFan wrote: | | handicap18 wrote: |
I still haven't gotten an answer about the sheets of metal and where they can be found. Even looking at the other modification threads it doesn't say where to obtain nor does it say what gauge.
|
Not sure which sheet of metal you are asking about, but I'll venture it's for the diffuser. My diffuser is 16ga plain steel. It was 12" wide and 24" long, but I cut it down to 14" or 16" if I remember correctly. You'll want plain steel or stainless steel. Don't use zinc plated in any form, bright or galvanized. I used existing hardware bolts to mount mine, but I don't see why you couldn't drill through the lip for a 1/4-20 bolt or self-tapping machine screw, but again, just don't use a galvanized or bright zinc plated screw to do so. I bought my sheet steel at a farm supply store like TSC, but your Lowe's or HD might have it too. My SS hardware all came from Lowe's.
I will double check my thread and add the gauge info and sources if it not already in there... |
I thought I had hit jackpot for a minute until I realized my treasure was coated in zinc (I think). The guy who previously owned my house was a construction worker and a pack rat. He left a lot of crap behind when we bought the place including a bunch of sheet metal, but when I looked at it today I think it is all no good to me. Looks like it is all roofing material. Guess I'll need to get some nice clean metal when I hit up TSC for the expanded metal for the weldless charcoal box.
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