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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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 Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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Yeap, nothing wrong with a WSM, in fact I bought one today. But I got to disagree with what you say about fighting what heat does naturally. Heat like water will take the course of least resistance and since an opening in the side of a firebox is less resistant than going through the lid it will and does pass through the cooking chamber happily on its way to the exhaust stack. Having problems controling temps is more a fire management issue than it is related to cooker design.
Both the offset and WSM have advantages and disadvantages, both are great cookers. Which one is better has and will continue to be discussed and ultimately comes down to personal prefference.
If a offset is a Macho cooker then I guess a WSM is a Phalic cooker and well. We just wont go there.
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WSM
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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vtbbq-
All of my mods would work with an Outlaw just as well as the Smokin' Pro, except I would go up to a 3/8" rod for the cook chamber supports and add a fourth tuning plate. The exhaust stack extension would need to be longer too, but that's all.
I'll post more pics of the mods and clarify their details later this weekend. Just having a very busy day today.
If you want to do some of my mods, I would highly recommend you buy a Lennox brand hack saw and use the Lennox brand BiMetal blades. I've tried many other brands of blades and for the money, the Lennox blades just cut like butter!
I also agree with roxy about the WSM. I'm sure I'll add a WSM to the stable eventually. I think it will do a better job smoking my Jalepeno peppers and they can handle beer can turkeys instead of just chickens. However, they are only 18-1/2" in diameter so they have a really small grill area. The Smokin' Pro has almost 1,050 square inches of grill area when you use the SFB as a grill. Plus you can set up the SFB as a much cooler grill for heating up brats, mets, and dogs; or build it up for a really hot fire to sear steaks before finishing them off in the main cooking chamber.
Send me a PM once you get the Smokin' Pro and have any questions.
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | Yeap, nothing wrong with a WSM, in fact I bought one today. But I got to disagree with what you say about fighting what heat does naturally. Heat like water will take the course of least resistance and since an opening in the side of a firebox is less resistant than going through the lid it will and does pass through the cooking chamber happily on its way to the exhaust stack. Having problems controling temps is more a fire management issue than it is related to cooker design.
Both the offset and WSM have advantages and disadvantages, both are great cookers. Which one is better has and will continue to be discussed and ultimately comes down to personal prefference.
If a offset is a Macho cooker then I guess a WSM is a Phalic cooker and well. We just wont go there. |
Now you need a Stoker to control both of them when you cooking in the winter!
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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WBOGGS
BBQ Fan
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | | Heat like water will take the course of least resistance and since an opening in the side of a firebox is less resistant than going through the lid it will and does pass through the cooking chamber happily on its way to the exhaust stack. Having problems controling temps is more a fire management issue than it is related to cooker design. |
I'm sorry but I just cant accept that. Heat rises and that's all it does; water runs equally at the top of a path and the bottom unlike heat that rises to the top then when it gets to any outlet escapes from there; if the outlet is low enough the fire goes out. The ONLY way you can even remotely heat an offset evenly is to trap the heat down under the food giving way for it to escape from underneath and wrap around the food. It had very little to do with fire management except that you have to have a huge fire in order to get enough heat down low enough to cook any food in an offset.
A WSM has the food over the fire, the heat goes to the food jut like heat travels naturally. Small fire, big heat. Offset, huge fire, little heat.
I had a Char Broil offset then I figured out heat rises, when I got a fire under the food smoker my fuel consumption went down by more that 60% and my heat was even corner to corner in the cook chamber. Take an offset, fire if up to 400 degrees (there's your first challenge) then run a biscuit test; put a biscuit in every corner and one in the middle and see if they are all done the same amount in the same time. WILL NEVER HAPPEN, I can count in it in mine. |
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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| WBOGGS wrote: | | roxy wrote: | | Heat like water will take the course of least resistance and since an opening in the side of a firebox is less resistant than going through the lid it will and does pass through the cooking chamber happily on its way to the exhaust stack. Having problems controling temps is more a fire management issue than it is related to cooker design. |
I'm sorry but I just cant accept that. Heat rises and that's all it does; water runs equally at the top of a path and the bottom unlike heat that rises to the top then when it gets to any outlet escapes from there; if the outlet is low enough the fire goes out. The ONLY way you can even remotely heat an offset evenly is to trap the heat down under the food giving way for it to escape from underneath and wrap around the food. It had very little to do with fire management except that you have to have a huge fire in order to get enough heat down low enough to cook any food in an offset.
A WSM has the food over the fire, the heat goes to the food jut like heat travels naturally. Small fire, big heat. Offset, huge fire, little heat.
I had a Char Broil offset then I figured out heat rises, when I got a fire under the food smoker my fuel consumption went down by more that 60% and my heat was even corner to corner in the cook chamber. Take an offset, fire if up to 400 degrees (there's your first challenge) then run a biscuit test; put a biscuit in every corner and one in the middle and see if they are all done the same amount in the same time. WILL NEVER HAPPEN, I can count in it in mine. |
Um, it's actually more complicated than that. Heat is transfered via convection, conduction, and radiation, not just convection. But, roxy does trap the heat to keep it under the food by using the C-G's charcoal tray upside down to distribute the heat through the cook chamber. I have a heat diffuser and tuning plates to trap and direct the heat flow in my Char-Griller.
Everything is a compromise or a trade-off. Especially on a $400 budget. The WSMs are more efficient, yes, but the offsets have more surface area and the flexibility to be used as a very large grill
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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vtbbq
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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I just don't really want a WSM. Primarily a looks thing, which is probably silly but I'm ok with that. It's also a matter of cooking surface and being able to use the rig as a grill too. I actually smoked a few times with somehting similar to a WSM, well maybe a WSM's second cousin twice removed. I had an old Weber charcoal grill that I modified by replacing the ash catcher with a "firebox". It worked ok, and I got some ok ribs out of it. It took two people to run though because the only way to get to the coals was to take of the cooking grate full of food. I talso had no temperature gauge so I was always just guessing, oh and I always lit it with a blow torch because I didn't have a chimney  It worked for my college years though. I remember having a hard time fitting the ribs on that thing and it was 22" can't even imagine 18".
So here's the bad news. Turns out none of the local places carry the chargriller in the stores, so I'd be back to ordering and paying the $100 shipping  Home depot does have the carbroil silver smoker in stock. It looks very similar to the chargriller minus the cast iron grates (major bummer). Do you guys think I could get decent 'que out of the charbroil and adapt some of broilermakersmods successfully, or should I be trying to see if a long drive to New York or New Hampshire migth lead me to an in stock chargriller. |
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WBOGGS
BBQ Fan
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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Whoops
Last edited by WBOGGS on Mar 18 2007; edited 1 time in total |
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WBOGGS
BBQ Fan
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mar 18 2007 Post subject: |
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| vtbbq wrote: | I just don't really want a WSM. Primarily a looks thing, which is probably silly but I'm ok with that. It's also a matter of cooking surface and being able to use the rig as a grill too. I actually smoked a few times with somehting similar to a WSM, well maybe a WSM's second cousin twice removed. I had an old Weber charcoal grill that I modified by replacing the ash catcher with a "firebox". It worked ok, and I got some ok ribs out of it. It took two people to run though because the only way to get to the coals was to take of the cooking grate full of food. I talso had no temperature gauge so I was always just guessing, oh and I always lit it with a blow torch because I didn't have a chimney It worked for my college years though. I remember having a hard time fitting the ribs on that thing and it was 22" can't even imagine 18".
So here's the bad news. Turns out none of the local places carry the chargriller in the stores, so I'd be back to ordering and paying the $100 shipping Home depot does have the carbroil silver smoker in stock. It looks very similar to the chargriller minus the cast iron grates (major bummer). Do you guys think I could get decent 'que out of the charbroil and adapt some of broilermakersmods successfully, or should I be trying to see if a long drive to New York or New Hampshire migth lead me to an in stock chargriller. |
Well on my Char Broil Silver Smoker I could not smoke 3 racks of full spare ribs; there is not enough room, you have to overlap the racks of ribs. You can cook more than that in a WSM. And I hear you, the Char Broil, or equivalent, sure has the macho smoker look but out of the box it will not cook food properly. The heat goes from the fire box to the top of the food chamber and out the chimney unless you Jerry Rig it. Then when you smoke more than 1 butt, you will have to rotate them since the one closest to the fire box will be done far sooner than the one next to it and if you have another next to that one, figure it for dinner the next day.
You get one, you'll see what I mean, I had one.
If you want to to believe that "Heat is transferred via convection, conduction, and radiation, not just convection." you will find that convection requires a fan for even heat in a horizontal chamber with a heat source at one end (convection is the only heat source in effect in an offset), conduction requires direct contact to the heat source (conduction happens in a fry pan) radiation requires that you food be over the fire to cook evenly, and radiation is the process in which energy is emitted as particles or waves also requires an unobstructed direct path to the food from the fire to cook this way. Yes heat travels 3 ways but only one way in a horizontal smoker. Better double check your science there Buddy.
Enough said by me; usually at this point someone gets it or starts fighting to try and be right. You have all the facts, it's your smoker. Looks pretty of cooks good; depends on what you really want.
Buy the way, hang the ribs in the WSM. |
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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How much is the shipping from Home Depot? They have the Char-Grillers on their web site...
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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Up here in Canada Home Depot does not provide free delivery on their grill and smokers. The chargriller I ordered from Home Depot cost about 35 dollars for shipping.
I can fit 5 racks of back ribs on my grill and 6 racks of spares all laying flat, no over lap at all. Plenty of room.
Dont think I will be doing ribs in my new WSM as I dont like the idea of having to roll them or bend them to fit. It will be strickly a butt and brisket cooker.
Heres a shot with 3 racks on deck and you can see by the pix there is easy room for 5 racks and 6 i ya move em together a bit. With 2 rib racks I can get 10 racks with a bit of room for some ABT's as well.
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Chargriller Akorn
WSM
LIAR #100
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Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
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WBOGGS
BBQ Fan
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | Up here in Canada Home Depot does not provide free delivery on their grill and smokers. The chargriller I ordered from Home Depot cost about 35 dollars for shipping.
I can fit 5 racks of back ribs on my grill and 6 racks of spares all laying flat, no over lap at all. Plenty of room.
Dont think I will be doing ribs in my new WSM as I dont like the idea of having to roll them or bend them to fit. It will be strickly a butt and brisket cooker.
Heres a shot with 3 racks on deck and you can see by the pix there is easy room for 5 racks and 6 i ya move em together a bit. With 2 rib racks I can get 10 racks with a bit of room for some ABT's as well. |
Well there's the problem, you dont know what a full spare rib is. A full spare rib measures between 17 and 18 inches long by 9 or 10 inches wide.
  
That's what full spare ribs look like. |
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smooookin
BBQ Fan
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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It is personal preference, do you want to “play with fire” or set it and forget it.
I have a couple of friends that have the WSM and love it. I have friends that have offsets and love them. (including myself).
For the money you wanna spend you could go either way. Personally I kinda like the challenge of the offset. I will admit that after spending a ton of time reading here and a couple of other boards I have learned so much I feel like I should send a check to someone.(no volunteers please)
Like I said, do you like a challenge or do you wanna set it and forget it for the most part. either one will turn out some darn good Q. personally I think you will learn more starting with an offset. |
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broncstomper
BBQ Fan
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 148
Location: ga
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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I agree with that smooookin, I think starting with an offset will give you the knowledge of fires and smoking meats to go in alot of different directions later. An offset will definitley teach you fire mgmt. Plus, for me there is something about using the offset that takes me back to when i was a kid and thats all people used.
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Smo-Ken
BBQ Fan
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Smokin' Up the California Delta
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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Hey VT, if you have to have one shipped anyway I highly recommend the Bar-B-Chef. I really love mine and one thing for you being up in the colder climate is that the thicker metal will retain heat way better than the thinner sheet of the Chargriller making temperature control a little easier in the winter. It is nice and big, the majority of the key mods are already completed for you.
Last time I looked on their website, BBQ's Galore had the full Web Special kit" for $249. Now I see it is $299 vs 269 for the que alone. The extra $30 is well worth it since it includes the thermometer, a cover, grill lifter, wood chunks and hardwood charcoal! Add the $75 for shipping (you usually can't get that deal in the stores anyway) and you have $25 left over to put towards a Maverick wireless thermometer.
Another possibility is that if you can wait until Memorial day I am sure they will go on sale! I bought mine during their Labor day sale and saved about $60.
So far the only mods I have made to mine are adding some stainless 2-1/2" carriage bolts to the charcoal grate to raise it up a little, I made a charcoal basket out of some scrap expanded steel I bought from a welding shop for $4, and I sealed the top of the lid with some self-stick fiberglass "rope" that is used for sealing the glass windows in a wood or pellet stove. ($5 at my local spa & stove dealer). I fill two cheapy metal baking pans with water and place them along the lower grills in the smoker and once she's heated up I can get temperatures withing 1* from one end to the other.
It really is built much better than the cheaper units. It is a chunk of steel where to me the others just felt kind of "rinky-dink" to me with a lot of flex in the various parts. No offense to any of you guys that have the CG's or Brinkmans but that is just my personal opinion. They all are capable of some great 'Que!
Like you I just had that "romantic vision" of a classic Texas style smoke churner cranking out the good stuff instead of an upright.
I can post pics of my mods if you like.
Good luck with whatever you end up choosing!
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Bassin, Blues & B-B-Q's... Nuthin's Finer!!!
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Bar-B-Chef Offset Smoker
BBQ Pro Bullet
22" Weber kettles (Red & Blue)
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vexter1
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 1030
Location: Monroe, LA
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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I have a Char Broil Silver Smoker - been using it every Sunday since last Fall - this includes days where the wind chill is -20 
I did all of the standard mods to it and have been quite happy with it and it produces some great 'Q. In fact I did a brisket for a friend on Superbowl Sunday and when he served it - he was asked where he bought it at - yeah!!!
Anyway - I got my from Home Depot on sale for about $160 - my only major complaint is that sometimes I fight the temp on it more than I would like - otherwise, I'm very happy with it.
I use lump charcoal and wood chips and always keep a water bowl on there with it - the results have been great - just my $0.2 |
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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VT-
Where in Vermont are you? There is a Lowe's in Plattsburgh, NY just outside of Burlington...
LOWE'S OF PLATTSBURGH, NY #1195
39 CENTRE DRIVE
PLATTSBURGH, NY 12901
Phone: (518) 561-6517
Fax: (518) 562-8329
They should stock the Char-Griller Super Pro and the SFB.
If you're close, that would save you the freight, but if not, then I would agree with Smo-Ken on the Bar-B-Chef...
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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vtbbq
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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Well, I had to go to home depot yesterday anyways and figured as long as I was there I'd just go "look" at the charbroil. Needless to say temptation got the better of me and a few minutes later I was walking out with a new charbroil silver smoker, cover, charcoal chimney, thermometer, and wood chunks. One of the things that tipped me over into getting it was my home depot is chalk full of charbroil parts and accessories, so if I ever need anything I'm all set. I got everything listed above for $240 including tax, so the wife was happy.
I almost went to Plattsburgh to check out the Lowes. It's about a 2 hour drive each way, maybe a little less if I took the ferry. I'm pretty sure I would have made that trip if I hadn't had to go to home depot anyways. I think I'm going to be pretty happy with the charbroil. Just need to get it put together and all tweaked up for some cookin! The best part was walking out of the store I heard two different guys go "whoah, honey can we get a smoker?" |
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vtbbq
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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| by the way smo-ken I love your sig! I play the harmonica (well try to) and I'm a pretty big blues fan. |
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BoilermakerFan
BBQ Fan
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Evansville, IN
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| Posted: Mar 19 2007 Post subject: |
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Congrats.
Well, most of my mods were based on the recommended mods for the Silver Smoker. You add the big pnuematic tires or pnuematic tires and casters if you wanted too.
And you have money left over to buy a Stoker!
http://www.rocksbarbque.com/Products.html
I'll be ordering mine shortly (end of this week or early next week).
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the mods.
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My highly tweaked Char-Griller Smokin' Pro died many years ago... my Weber Kettle gave us 20 years of great food... Now i'm rocking an Oklahoma Joe's Bronco! |
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vtbbq
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mar 24 2007 Post subject: |
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I've got the silver smoker all built now and all of my supplies collected up except one, the food. Any suggestions for menu choices on my first smoke? I need suggestions for the main course obviously, but I'll also take any suggestions for "appetizers" I might be able to pull off the smoker and enjoy while the main deal is getting up to temp  |
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