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Alternative cuts for Q

 
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RodinBangkok
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Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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Location: Bangkok Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09 15 3:46 pm    Post subject: Alternative cuts for Q Reply with quote

I found this article interesting and thought it might be of interest.
We're currently playing with pork fore shanks for whats called in the states pig wings. So far it looks promising, I think the major issue as described below is the ability to get the connective tissues edible via braising to be able to use these cuts.
We're looking also at a combination technique for some cuts, such as smoking then finishing by braising in a large low set deck oven to up our smoker capacity.

Article from Meatingplace

http://www.meatingplace.com/Industry/TechnicalArticles/Details/53107

The secret to finding new barbecue items in the carcass

By Robert Maddock, Ph.D on 2/9/2015

The industry is running out of brisket, pork butts and ribs, and it is looking for new ways to present cuts, such as treating the sirloin cap (coulette) like a brisket. There are potentially several other muscles and cuts that may be used.
The price for popular barbecue items, such as beef brisket, has increased substantially over the past year. In November 2014, Choice brisket price was reported at more than $3.00/pound by the USDA Agricultural Marketing Service. Pork butts were around $1.50/pound, and the prices for ribs, both spare ribs and back ribs has also increased substantially. This increase in price reflects both the higher overall price for beef and pork, as well as an increased utilization of popular cuts for barbecue items.
So the question is: Are there alternative cuts that can replace brisket, butts and ribs – especially for precooked and pre-prepared barbecue items?
The answer to the question can be answered by evaluating beef and pork cuts that have similar characteristics to the popular barbecue items and that are currently not being utilized as barbecue items.
One resource to start with is the beef and pork muscle profiling projects.
In general, if we look at popular barbecue cuts, they have similar characteristics, such as being too tough for steak applications, having a high fat content, having a texture that is not desirable as a steak, or having the wrong shape, size, or ease of cutting for the cut at retail. Research and development teams can utilize several of these cuts in projects to determine optimal cooking and packaging that can be used to effectively market these products.
Also, the information here is mostly directed at precooked barbecue items and cuts that may be marketed as barbecue item replacements. By precooking these cuts, most of the tenderness and size concerns can be eliminated. Proper cooking techniques generally involves low temperature, high humidity and long cooking cycles. This combination of time, temperature and humidity causes the high levels of connective tissue in the muscle to tenderize. This process allows the connective tissue to turn into the gelatin form of the connective tissue, which is both tender and good tasting.
A prime example of a replacement for beef brisket is the serratus ventralis (SV) muscle, which is found on the chuck roll (not the chuck eye roll). The SV is the fan-shaped muscle found under the chuck eye and is referred to as the “under blade.” The SV has an average fat content of 12 percent, which is higher than the brisket, but also leads to a relatively juicy product when cooked. The primary issue with the SV is the high amount of connective tissue, which can make the cut tough if used as a steak cut or even a roast. By precooking the SV at a low temperature (160 degrees F) over a long period of time (8 hours of more) the connective tissue essentially disappears, which greatly improves the eating quality of the cut.
Another brisket alternative is the top sirloin cap, often referred to as the coulette. This cut has a similar shape to the flat half of the brisket and also has a low fat content. The sirloin cap is already fairly tender, so a long cooking cycle is not necessary. Price is one of the things to consider if using the sirloin cap as a barbecue item. Sirloin caps are usually more expensive than brisket; however, the quality of the final product also is very high and may be marketed at a premium.
Yet another cut to consider is the bottom sirloin flap. Flap meat has a loose texture and high fat content that is desirable for precooked barbecue items. Flaps are also currently high priced, but the yield is good as there is very little trimmable fat.
Shredded beef and pork can also be produced using cuts not traditionally thought of as barbecue items. Shredded pork is most often produced from Boston Butts, but boneless picnics are an alternative that is available at a lower price. Boneless picnic meat has similar characteristics to Boston Butts; however the yield would be lower due to greater amounts of connective tissue.
For higher-quality shredded pork, shoulder cushion meat is another alternative. An even more radical solution to increase the availability of shredded pork is to use fresh ham pieces. The outside ham or the ham knuckles are high-quality cuts that are comparably priced to Bostons and would have a high yield if turned into barbecue items.
For shredded beef, there are a couple of cuts that could replace typical shredded beef barbecue. Since shredded meats tend to have sauce or flavoring added, and the cooking process should eliminate tenderness concerns, utilizing cow briskets is a viable alternative. The rump portion of the bottom round is another source of high quality raw product that can be used for a shredded beef application.
Another underutilized cuts from beef that may be used a replacement for chuck short ribs or back ribs are plate short ribs. Plate short ribs have more trimmable fat that chuck short ribs, but the intercostal muscles, which are generally the most desirable portion of the rib are similar between chuck short ribs and plate short ribs. The edible portion of plate short ribs is somewhat low, but if the demand for ribs continues to increase, this may be an interesting use of this cut that is not often boned out to produce ground beef.

-Article End-
Anyone tried any of the cuts suggested above, or perhaps others?
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YardFullOfOak
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10 15 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Culotte steak is a great cut. Better than tri-tip.
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11 15 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

5 years ago, very few people in my area even knew what brisket was.

What I've been doing to combat meat prices rising is to diversify our menu by adding pizzas, some fried seafood options, and I have plans to implement some Gyro's spits and do Gyro's here too.

I am actually considering trying to make BBQ one of our less popular items with this.
There is no reason that I should not be able to dominate this area with more of a "Gastropub" menu.
I did BBQ because I have 68 other restaurants in close proximity to me, and none do BBQ.
Sure, we have other pizza places, but the bulk of them suck!
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YardFullOfOak
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11 15 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harry Nutczak wrote:
5 years ago, very few people in my area even knew what brisket was.

What I've been doing to combat meat prices rising is to diversify our menu by adding pizzas, some fried seafood options, and I have plans to implement some Gyro's spits and do Gyro's here too.

I am actually considering trying to make BBQ one of our less popular items with this.
There is no reason that I should not be able to dominate this area with more of a "Gastropub" menu.
I did BBQ because I have 68 other restaurants in close proximity to me, and none do BBQ.
Sure, we have other pizza places, but the bulk of them suck!


Just make sure you don't lose your distinctiveness.

In the age of Yelp and blogs, it is often more desirable to be at the top of the list of "Best Hot Dog Places in Merced" than being the jack of all trades...
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12 15 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YardFullOfOak wrote:
Harry Nutczak wrote:
5 years ago, very few people in my area even knew what brisket was.

What I've been doing to combat meat prices rising is to diversify our menu by adding pizzas, some fried seafood options, and I have plans to implement some Gyro's spits and do Gyro's here too.

I am actually considering trying to make BBQ one of our less popular items with this.
There is no reason that I should not be able to dominate this area with more of a "Gastropub" menu.
I did BBQ because I have 68 other restaurants in close proximity to me, and none do BBQ.
Sure, we have other pizza places, but the bulk of them suck!


Just make sure you don't lose your distinctiveness.

In the age of Yelp and blogs, it is often more desirable to be at the top of the list of "Best Hot Dog Places in Merced" than being the jack of all trades...


My goal is not to be consistently rated in the top 5 or 10 restaurants in the area, my goal is to continue to be profitable so we can continue to employ others. If the profit margins are not where I need them to be in BBQ, we make it up elsewhere in popular food items
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lantern
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Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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Location: Marion,NC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12 15 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're on the right track Harry. I have several friend in the restaurant biz and ALL have started serving pizza because no matter how fancy you make it(barring gold flake and the like in toppings), it'll be your profit leader every time.
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qfanatic01
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15 15 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a gourmet Italian restaurant before this BBQ joint. I still have some key equipment in storage, including pasta extruders. I can make fresh pasta for under a buck a pound, making it just as profitable as pizza. I got out of the Italian place because of personal health issues, which are under control now. I went into BBQ even though I had one of the better Italian places in the metro because of the Atkins craze at the time and the eminent rise of BBQ. My BBQ sales have far eclipsed the Italian place. Last year was the least profitable of the last 5 with the rise in meat prices and labor. Unfortunately, I had a hard time raising my prices as much as I needed in that short of time. Any restaurant is hard work and low margins, but my preference is Italian for sure. I think the internet has been a real game changer over the last 8 years in marketing. If I would have had that tool in my Italian place I may have never gotten into BBQ. Long term I can see taking a few of my best BBQ items and working them in to the Italian menu. I used my original BBQ sauce for the BBQ Chicken Pizza there. Ultimately though, I enjoy not having wait staff and the best part of BBQ, catering! BBQ catering has got to be the easiest money I've ever made in this business. Not a lot money, but easy.
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Harry Nutczak
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16 15 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qfanatic01 wrote:
I had a gourmet Italian restaurant before this BBQ joint. I still have some key equipment in storage, including pasta extruders. I can make fresh pasta for under a buck a pound, making it just as profitable as pizza. I got out of the Italian place because of personal health issues, which are under control now. I went into BBQ even though I had one of the better Italian places in the metro because of the Atkins craze at the time and the eminent rise of BBQ. My BBQ sales have far eclipsed the Italian place. Last year was the least profitable of the last 5 with the rise in meat prices and labor. Unfortunately, I had a hard time raising my prices as much as I needed in that short of time. Any restaurant is hard work and low margins, but my preference is Italian for sure. I think the internet has been a real game changer over the last 8 years in marketing. If I would have had that tool in my Italian place I may have never gotten into BBQ. Long term I can see taking a few of my best BBQ items and working them in to the Italian menu. I used my original BBQ sauce for the BBQ Chicken Pizza there. Ultimately though, I enjoy not having wait staff and the best part of BBQ, catering! BBQ catering has got to be the easiest money I've ever made in this business. Not a lot money, but easy.


^^^^^Right On^^^^^^^^

My original plan was always BBQ, Wood-fired pizza, and fried chicken in a fast casual atmosphere.

Funding (lack Thereof) killed that, but when we moved into our new location, the original 3-deck ovens from 2002 were still here, as was the spiral mixer.

We do many pizzas with BBQ meats on them, it really helps move my scrappy stuff that is perfectly good, just not visually appealing enough to plate by itself.

Everybody and their uncle does fried bird around here, so I am now considering adding Gyro's to the mix, and dominating the area with delivery of full menu.
Once things are rocking well. Sell the heck out, jump on a new Street-Glide Special, and see the country.
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