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Lewis & Herschel
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 757
Location: Smyrna, TN
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 Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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| Josjor wrote: | Well, 8 hours later and I'm still waiting. Can't seem to keep the temp up. It held fine for about 3 hours and then went in the tank. I keep adding and adding and turning the sfb into the shifting wind. Hopefully I can get ahead here and report on some good butt.
Using mainly charcoal as I've run out of logs. Any ideas? |
Don't worry about the logs. I would get a chimney of charcoal going asap if you haven't. Also, make sure it is getting plenty of air in the fire box. If you are using briquettes, make sure the ash is not smothering the fire.
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Josjor
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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I've been putting full chimney's on pretty steadily and dumping the ash-tray. I even have the ash tray cracked a bit as that gave me a 5-10 degree bump.
I think it may be the way I have the drip pan or something. Last week when I did ribs I had to work to keep the temp down........but then I was burning more logs than briquettes. This time its the other way around.
Damn, I wish I had a source for some good wood right now.  |
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Alien BBQ
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
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Josjor
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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| Alien BBQ wrote: | | A burning log is always going to be hotter than glowing coals. |
Yep, and I wish I had some now.
Finally got the smoker temp back up to 250. Now I'm at the infamous 165 plateau on the meat. Hopefully I didn't spend too much time in the danger zone. I'll let you know in about 8 hours in between trips to the bathroom.   |
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Char
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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I cook my butts fat side down.
Butts are greasy to begin with. I don't like adding anymore fat on the top.
I feel that you get more smoke that way too.
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Lewis & Herschel
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 757
Location: Smyrna, TN
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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| Josjor wrote: | | Alien BBQ wrote: | | A burning log is always going to be hotter than glowing coals. |
Yep, and I wish I had some now.
Finally got the smoker temp back up to 250. Now I'm at the infamous 165 plateau on the meat. Hopefully I didn't spend too much time in the danger zone. I'll let you know in about 8 hours in between trips to the bathroom. |
1 thing to keep in mind with logs is never put them unlit on a cool fire, they will smolder and could ruin your BBQ. You have to keep a fire hot to toss logs on it. That can be difficult with a small fire box.
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Josjor
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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Took the fatty off and had a few bites.....damned that's tasty! All I had handy was the Jimmy Dean Hot. Rolled it in the rub I'd made for the butts and waited till about 165 degrees.
Must be due to temp spread, but I got one butt that is creeping up to the magical 195 and one that is at the 170 mark. Hopefully we'll get to eat tonight!  |
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Josjor
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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Well, finally pulled them off. One of them was reading higher than the other so I pulled it first. Ended up chopping it as it wouldn't pull so I guess I took that one off too early. The second one I left on for a while longer and pulled almost easy. It probably coulda used a bit more time as well. Had a good smoke ring and they were both tasty, just not the classic "pulled pork" texture. I'll have good leftovers for lunch the rest the week and saved a couple bags in the freezer for some posole when the weather turns cold again.
A good learning experience as this was the first "long" smoke with the CG. I'll know next time to be a bit more prepared. The minion method with the basket I made yields about 3-4 hours of steady heat, something that'll be handy a lot of other things like ribs and such.
Still havin fun and eatin good. |
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allsmokenofire
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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Havin' fun and eatin' good is what it's all about. You'll be twice as good next time and even better after that. Keep at it and you'll be crankin' out awesome Q in no time. 
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Mike
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allsmokenofire
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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| Alien BBQ wrote: | | Generally I am a no flip fat side up kinda of guy but I have been experimenting with a process that seems to be working fairly well. I start with the fat side down for the first hour to allow more smoke to settle on the uncovered meat and “set” the rub or slather. Then I flip it over after the first hour and continue fat side up till done. This is not scientific but just an observation that I am working with right now. |
Interesting theory I'm following.....question is, do I need a ouija board or magic 8 ball to make this "settling smoke" theory work? I'm assuming by you're post that you don't season the fat cap, so there's no rub to "set" on the fat cap? 
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marvsbbq
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Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 6186
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| Posted: Feb 19 2007 Post subject: |
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What cooking (barbecuing in our case) is all about is 'trial and error' to come up with someting we can actually eat and the share recipe with others....AM I wrong???
When I cook butts (or briskets for that matter) it is ALWAYS fat side up due to the fact that when the fat melts at least some of it filters down through the meat to help keep it moist. The rest melts and runs off.
The way I have my smokers built, the smoke/heat deflector makes the heat/smoke circulate around the meat(s) like a convection oven so there is no need to turn or rotate the meat(s)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/marvsbbq/Preppingbutts007.jpg
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SmokinOkie
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 2078
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| Posted: Feb 20 2007 Post subject: |
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| Alien BBQ wrote: | | Generally I am a no flip fat side up kinda of guy. I start with the fat side down for the first hour to allow more smoke to settle on the uncovered meat and “set” the rub or slather. Then I flip it over after the first hour and continue fat side up till done. This is not scientific but just an observation that I am working with right now. |
Well I guess you're testing out the new theories to get more data for your book. So, going back to the great brisket flip debate, now you're trying something new and that's good.
Good to see 'ya on the dark side. 
But I've got an observation/question. | Quote: | | 'smoke to settle on the uncovered meat'. |
That's one I've heard before, but not really heard a good answer. Kinda the same as flip or don't flip...no real right answer.
What's your theory?
I think the one thing that matters is airflow. If the smoke can't get to the underneath side, then yup, turn it over where it can get some smoke. But if you have good airflow in the smoker (and lots of smokers don't) then the airflow is the problem.
If the intent is to get more "smoke" then a direct line to the airflow provides the first contact. Good convection (that's air circulation) allows the smoke to come in frequent contact (multiple times). As the smoke is carried by heat, I don't think it will settle as much as flow across the meat.
I've been a flipper all my life, in fact I go to weekly Flippers Anonymous meetings. It's an addiction, I flip everything, even quarters.
I haven't found any significance between fat up or fat down as far as smoke ring penetration., in my smoker as I have good air flow (sometimes too good).
Good luck in the testing, let us know how it comes out.
Smokin' |
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crgowo
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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| Ive only done 2 butts but I read that the butt has a lot of internal fat and connective tissue so cutting off the fat cap will not make it dry out like a brisket would. |
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Tony
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 3486
Location: Rehoboth Beach ,Delaware
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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settling smoke...
By what means does smoke settle...'splain,please.
Best Regards, Tony |
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Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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| SmokinOkie wrote: | | Alien BBQ wrote: | | Generally I am a no flip fat side up kinda of guy. I start with the fat side down for the first hour to allow more smoke to settle on the uncovered meat and “set” the rub or slather. Then I flip it over after the first hour and continue fat side up till done. This is not scientific but just an observation that I am working with right now. |
Well I guess you're testing out the new theories to get more data for your book. So, going back to the great brisket flip debate, now you're trying something new and that's good.
Good to see 'ya on the dark side.
But I've got an observation/question. | Quote: | | 'smoke to settle on the uncovered meat'. |
That's one I've heard before, but not really heard a good answer. Kinda the same as flip or don't flip...no real right answer.
What's your theory?
I think the one thing that matters is airflow. If the smoke can't get to the underneath side, then yup, turn it over where it can get some smoke. But if you have good airflow in the smoker (and lots of smokers don't) then the airflow is the problem.
If the intent is to get more "smoke" then a direct line to the airflow provides the first contact. Good convection (that's air circulation) allows the smoke to come in frequent contact (multiple times). As the smoke is carried by heat, I don't think it will settle as much as flow across the meat.
I've been a flipper all my life, in fact I go to weekly Flippers Anonymous meetings. It's an addiction, I flip everything, even quarters.
I haven't found any significance between fat up or fat down as far as smoke ring penetration., in my smoker as I have good air flow (sometimes too good).
Good luck in the testing, let us know how it comes out.
Smokin' |
I have never been one to believe that my way is the only way. In fact, I have learned a lot from you and the other guys. The smoke settling is just a theory I am working on based on observations I made while smoking. The actual matter in smoke is heavier than air and it is the heat that moves it along the cooker. I agree that a smoker with good air convection has little problem with getting enough smoke to stick to the meat, but unfortunately, many of the guys here on the ring don’t have the equipment that either you, I, or a limited few of us have. When I work on a recipe, I seldom break out my big smoker because most people don’t have that type of equipment. Many of the things I do, I do on a SnP or the ECB just to make sure that the regular guy can reproduce it.
The observation I made was this; when the smoke starts to settle (due to gravity) there is a greater amount of liquid on the bottom than on top. The smoke that was clinging to the liquid on the bottom was never really hitting the meat because it collected on the surface of the liquid and then dripped off on to the bottom of the cooker. When I spritzed the meat, the same thing happened. I noticed that if I had it meat side up initially, the smoke that settled on the meat initially got into the pores better and thus clung to the meat better when it was flipped.
I think everyone can agree that the first hour or so, the fat flipped up is really not doing a whole lot for the meat because the temp in the meat is still relatively low. However, with the meat side facing up, the collected smoke seems to hold on better, set the spices better, and add more flavor to the meat (although this could just be a perception based on alignment with the theory and not entirely factual.)
So for right now, I am going to place the meat, fat side down initially and allow the meat side to come into greater contact with the smoke in the cooker. After the first hour or so, I will flip it and cook it as usual. For right now this theory seems valid, but like all things, perception does not always equal reality.
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marvsbbq
BBQ All Star
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 6186
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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What great analogy you have. I admire your dedication to the understanding of barbecuing (smoke cooking).
That last post was a lesson in itself..........CLASS DISMISSED!!!
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Tony
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 3486
Location: Rehoboth Beach ,Delaware
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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As Smoke goes...It is made up of particulate matter; some of it solids,some of it liquidus and obviously,under fire, a good portion of it is ...
Gaseous.
While It is reasonable to agree that Smoke is heavier than air, and Might settle in a (Static) environment, that scenario is dramatically
reversed in a Dynamic state...
That is the case with the "Barebeque" Cookers We are all collectively so farmiliar with.
Given to heat rise,the smoke will ALWAYS travel and remain moving in it's
Natural,upmoving path.
Without the natural forces of convection,there may exist a possibility of smoldering,stagnant, settling smoke.
Hopefully, most of us are beyond That point of "Bad Barbecue!"
Best Regards, Tony |
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Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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Put a half bowl of water in your smoker and you will change your mind. No matter what type of smoker you have or the velocity at which the smoke moves, as long as you have edges in the path you will have eddy currents and negative pressure points that will momentarily stagnate the air and allow the smoke particles to settle. If not, you would never get any smoke on the top of your meat. My point is (and this is more academic than practical) it happens, and I am just trying to see if it really makes a difference. It may not make a difference at all, but if you don’t ask why, right or wrong, then you are destined to do it just like you always have …
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allsmokenofire
BBQ All Star
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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| Alien BBQ wrote: | | The observation I made was this; when the smoke starts to settle (due to gravity) there is a greater amount of liquid on the bottom than on top. The smoke that was clinging to the liquid on the bottom was never really hitting the meat because it collected on the surface of the liquid and then dripped off on to the bottom of the cooker. When I spritzed the meat, the same thing happened. I noticed that if I had it meat side up initially, the smoke that settled on the meat initially got into the pores better and thus clung to the meat better when it was flipped. |
Been a helluva day already...a week of Mondays, so I must not be reading this right. 
You're saying that you actually OBSERVED smoke clinging to liquid on the bottom of a piece of meat INSIDE the smoker and collecting on the surface of the liquid??
You also OBSERVED the smoke settling into the pores of the meat better when the fat cap was positioned down and actually held on better when you flipped the meat??
Please tell me I'm reading this wrong...please.
The last time I heard a story like this I was a child, there were munchkins, flying monkeys and ruby slippers involved...and I didn't believe that one either.
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Mike
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Tony
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 3486
Location: Rehoboth Beach ,Delaware
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| Posted: Feb 27 2007 Post subject: |
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Do the Smoke particles settle during momentary air stagnation;or do they attach themselves to the food during the convection process?
The "Bowl of Water"statement is factually correct...However,in a convection state, it is physically impossible for a half-bowl,or any given volume of water in a bowl to absorb any amount of smoke at all.The smoke will sit there,if at all ,until smoke generation ceases. And Yes,I know that Your point is just that: The smoke Might settle on the water.
I also think it is more generally accepted that smoke is "absorbed" in the meat peripherally as long as the smoke is generated within the smoking environment.
I certainly do not doubt Your approach to a theory
in practice.
Pertaining to things being done the way I/We were destined to do them, Well...Let's just say some of us have No problem with that.
Good luck with Your research project.
Best Regards, Tony |
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