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marvsbbq
BBQ All Star
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 6186
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 Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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AMEN Brother Jeff.........I think we have had quite enough of one person trying to 'catch' the last person in a darn mistake of some kind.
Let's all just do what we love to do and that is BARBECUE and post pictures of our 'prized' results.........how hard is that????
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adolpho
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 1067
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| skybob wrote: | Hey there JeffT, like your new avatar  |
Me too!!!!! Stop making me jealous.
Is it over? 
I kinda hope so, but this debate has been fun to watch unfold. I was especially impressed when SStory brought up the question of spritzing. Great answer Dawgphan! I don't spritz or mop my butts or briskets. I'll glaze my ribs for color and added flavor. Finally, when I do spritz, it's on my chickens, so that way the skin is still moist and edible. I believe Dawgphan is right in that spritzing helps keep from loosing moisture. In my experience, if I wait longer than 1.5 hours to start spritzing my chickens, it's too late and the skin is going to be chewy and leathery no matter how much I spritz, since it dried out. That's just my experience and I don't know the science to it, so don't ask me to prove anything. 
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allsmokenofire
BBQ All Star
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| Jeff T wrote: | So what is the point with all this mumbo jumbo science crap?
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Brother Jeff...you get an Amen from the congregation here!
Just eyeballin' that hunk o' meat in the pan it looks like the runt of the litter, which might have something to do with the results, but what do I know? I also think oil is a better conductor of heat than water...but what do I know? I think Jim is 100% on track with the pan liquid/heat transfer statement.
I also don't feel a need to prove what I know, but what do I know? 
My daddy raised me to believe that being humble all the time was way better than being right half the time...but what did he know??
Here's to keeping the simple life simple!! 
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Mike
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allsmokenofire
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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Oh....and I didn't want to add this, but ya got me kinda fired up here... 
I've cooked a lotta brisket over the last couple/several/buncha years, and I take 'em all to AT LEAST 190*, and most higher...and there hasn't been a one of 'em that's come out lookin' like that, that I can remember.
When I cook to 190*+ there's not nearly as much connective tissue/collagen material left within the meat. I guess I must be doing something wrong.
Of course, I guess I got those KCBS judges fooled, cuz they seem to like it.
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Mike
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allsmokenofire
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 5051
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| BBQMAN wrote: | | Awesome guys (and gals) workin on page 5 here! Pretty impressive, been a while since we had a debate this good! |
LOL Mike, maybe some folks just don't know when to pull their dog outta the fight? While you have to admire their tenacity, you just wind up feeling sorry for the dog in the end.
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Mike
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BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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Very true, been there myself lately over in catering Mike!
I love a spirited dedate as much as the next person, at some point it can become counter-productive.
Thanks to all the participate here, it is still a great place to share and learn what we know, and pick up some new things along the way. The varied backgroung of our group sure keeps things interesting!
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BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
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Hoochie-Que
BBQ Fan
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Park City, UT
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| Jeff T wrote: | So what is the point with all this mumbo jumbo science crap?
Come on fellas. Here`s how it goes........
Was it tender?
Was it tasty?
Was the color inviting?
If the judges say so then you get to take the two dollar ribbon home.
Lets move on. I`m damb sure most all of ya are way smarter than me.
Life was easier in kindergarden when we played "king of the hill" |
You know, I'll be the first to admit that some of the "mumbo jumbo science crap" in this thread may be a lot more than some viewers wish to know/read... But I also feel most of this "mumbo" certainly wasn't brought forward in an effort to stroke a few egos and/or to establish that someone is a lot "smarter" than the guy/gal sitting next to them in cyberspace...
What I think some of you have seen expressed here is some sincere interest in better understanding what truly occurs when the process of Queing is taking place... And perhaps honestly questioning/debunking some of what we all sometimes do when Queing - and/or have read/heard from someone and simply accepted as a "fact"... And thank goodness there are these types of conversations from time to time... Otherwise, we might not have ever come across the importance to bring a brisket or butt to a certain internal temperature... Nor might we have seen some of the advances in smoker design that we have seen come our way over the past several years...
What I love about Queing/cooking is that it is indeed an "inexact science"... It is a process of "knowns" and "unknowns" that is dynamic, and changes to some degree (at least it does for me) each and every time I fire up my smoker... There are also elements of "lore" and "mystique" and longstanding "tradition" that add to my passion of Que... But make no mistake - there is also a "science of food" component that is part of the picture as well...
I don't even begin to fully understand this computer I am sitting in front of... Nor the car I drive each day... Nor even why my smoker is able to do what it does for me - much less how I would even begin to build one for myself... But you know what? I sure am glad there are folks out there that do understand these things... And have conversations about them... Even if it is way over my head... Because I figure along the line somewhere I will benefit from what they understand and/or find interest in - even if I don't...
I have seen many a thread in this forum devoted to smoker design... Hell, I haven't understood 1/2 of what was being discussed there at times... In all honesty, that is a lot of "mumbo jumbo science crap" to me... But I guess I also didn't feel those that were participating in the thread were trying to "show off" their intelligence as such, either... If anything, I am glad that there are those that enjoy - and can understand - that kind of "mumbo jumbo"... And what I am generally hoping is that by the time they get towards the end of the thread (and this generally happens), someone provides a "summary" that I can understand... A "summary" I can then use, that perhaps helps me be a little better and/or helps me enjoy Queing just a little more...
There is absolutely no problem in being content with your "knowledge" of Que being based solely on how the food you cook ends up tasting/looking/smelling... Not at all... I don't understand my computer, either... Nor do I really care to know.... All I know is that I punch a botton to turn it on, it connects to the Internet, and away I go...
But thank goodness there are folks who know all about computers - and want to know more... Eventually, I (and everyone else) will benefit from their interest/passion... In a similar vein, be patient/appreciative/thankful for the likes of Alien and Jim Minion and others who delve into some of the "mumbo jumbo"... Yeah, they are smart guys in their field... Maybe they get off on "tangents" from time to time you may not understand or have any interest in... Maybe there is a little "sparring" /challenging that takes place from time to time... But I certainly don't think it is done to establish a "superiority" of sorts among the members of this forum... And I think if you will simply try to be patient - and "wade through" things the best you can - that you just might gleen a thing or two that will make your Que just a little better and/or make the process of Queing just a little more enjoyable...
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Dr. Mike
Hoochie-Que BBQ Team / KCBS CBJ
"Jesus Loved Barbeque, Too" - Kinky Friedman
Last edited by Hoochie-Que on Mar 03 2007; edited 2 times in total |
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Hoochie-Que
BBQ Fan
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Park City, UT
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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| Jeff T wrote: | So what is the point with all this mumbo jumbo science crap?
Come on fellas. Here`s how it goes........
Was it tender?
Was it tasty?
Was the color inviting?
If the judges say so then you get to take the two dollar ribbon home.
Lets move on. I`m damb sure most all of ya are way smarter than me.
Life was easier in kindergarden when we played "king of the hill" |
You know, I'll be the first to admit that some of the "mumbo jumbo science crap" in this thread may be a lot more than some viewers wish to know/read... But I also feel most of this "mumbo" certainly wasn't brought forward in an effort to stroke a few egos and/or to establish that someone is a lot "smarter" than the guy/gal sitting next to them in cyberspace...
What I think some of you have seen expressed here is some sincere interest in better understanding what truly occurs when the process of Queing is taking place... And perhaps honestly questioning/debunking some of what we all sometimes do when Queing - and/or have read/heard from someone and simply accepted as a "fact"... And thank goodness there are these types of conversations from time to time... Otherwise, we might not have ever come across the importance to bring a brisket or butt to a certain internal temperature... Nor might we have seen some of the advances in smoker design that we have seen come our way over the past several years...
What I love about Queing/cooking is that it is indeed an "inexact science"... It is a process of "knowns" and "unknowns" that is dynamic, and changes to some degree (at least it does for me) each and every time I fire up my smoker... There are also elements of "lore" and "mystic" and longstanding "tradition" that add to my passion of Que... But make no mistake - there is also a "science of food" component that is part of the picture as well...
I don't even begin to fully understand this computer I am sitting in front of... Nor the car I drive each day... Nor even why my smoker is able to do what it does for me - much less how I would even begin to build one for myself... But you know what? I sure am glad there are folks out there that do understand these things... And have conversations about them... Even if it is way over my head... Becuase I figure along teh line somewhere I will benefit from what they understand and/or find interest in - even if I don't...
I have seen many a thread in this forum devoted to smoker design... Hell, I haven't understood 1/2 of what was being discussed there at times... In all honesty, that is a lot of "mumbo jumbo science crap" to me... But I guess I also didn't feel those that were participating in the thread were trying to "show off" their intelligence as such, either... If anything, I am glad that there are those that enjoy - and can understand - that kind of "mumbo jumbo"... And what I am generally hoping is that by the time they get towards the end of the thread (and this generally happens), someone provides a "summary" that I can understand... A "summary" I can then use, that perhaps helps me be a little better and/or helps me enjoy Queing just a little more...
There is absolutely no problem in being content with your "knowledge" of Que being based solely on how the food you cook ends up tasting/looking/smelling... Not at all... I don't understand my computer, either... Nor do I really care to know.... All I know is that I punch a botton to turn it on, it connects to the Internet, and away I go...
But thank goodness there are folks who know all about computers - and want to know more... Eventually, I (and everyone else) will benefit from their interest/passion... In a similar vein, be patient/appreciative/thankful for the likes of Alien and Jim Minion and others who delve into some of the "mumbo jumbo"... Yeah, they are smart guys in their field... Maybe they get off on "tangents" from time to time you may not understand or have any interest in... Maybe there is a little "sparring" /challenging that takes place from time to time... But I certainly don't think it is done to establish a "superiority" of sorts in this forum... And I think if you will simply try to be patient - and "wade through" things the best you can - that you just might gleen a thing or two that will make your Que just a little better and/or make the process of Queing just a little more enjoyable...
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Dr. Mike
Hoochie-Que BBQ Team / KCBS CBJ
"Jesus Loved Barbeque, Too" - Kinky Friedman |
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Jeff T
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 4207
Location: Norfolk, Nebraska
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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Jeff T
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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Hoochie:
I dont agree, I think/feel/believe that there are times when this tech speak is inserted into a post so the poster can make himself feel/sound/appear superior to others here. I do think it is intentional and most of the good folks who come here read it up as if it is truth/fact/science.
Thats crap and that is why folks challenge what is said.
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Chargriller Akorn
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mrcustomsteel
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 1997
Location: Bilings, still a Texan, MT
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| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
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When you call bullsheets on someone you know while you are standing around a campfire sipping whiskey and smoking cigars, everyone gets a chuckle. It is hard to convey such a tone on a keyboard.
I'm glad we have a wide range of education and professional specialties on this board. I learn something new every day on here and I hope I return the favor occasionally. But afterall it is the wwwasteland.
If I may quote The Band, "take what you need and leave the rest".
Now I THINK that brisket looks undercooked because it got to 190 internal in 7hrs. I'm interested in more research on how the smoke flavor actually gets into the meat. Very cool demo with the piece of metal. Whatever happened to our mad scientist, WooDoggy? He'd be all over this one.
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Hoochie-Que
BBQ Fan
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Park City, UT
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | Hoochie:
I dont agree, I think/feel/believe that there are times when this tech speak is inserted into a post so the poster can make himself feel/sound/appear superior to others here. |
Possibly so, Roxy... Possibly so... Maybe my naivety is showing here...
While I can't speak for others, I can indeed speak for myself... For those who perhaps felt/thought I was flaunting something I was familiar with - and in an attempt to establish some degree of "superiority" - I do apologize, as that wasn't my intent... Not in the slightest...
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Dr. Mike
Hoochie-Que BBQ Team / KCBS CBJ
"Jesus Loved Barbeque, Too" - Kinky Friedman |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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Hoochie:
I did not mean you by any means dude. I was refering to those that try to come off all wise and knowing when they really are not that at all.
I understand you have been to school to learn about what you posted because it is clear by the way you wrote that you more than understand what you wrote about, you comprihend it...
It is folks like you that help to dispell the myths builders by presenting facts.
Read back through this thread and you will see what I am talking about.
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Chargriller Akorn
WSM
LIAR #100
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Jeff T
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Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 4207
Location: Norfolk, Nebraska
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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| Ditto |
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edskull69
BBQ Pro
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 510
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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so back to the post original question. Fat up or down? From what I read before the thread was hijacked, the general consensus is that it doesn't make a difference. So I am cooing 4 butts on their side today. Oh, and a first time fattie.
Erik out
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jminion
BBQ Fan
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Federal Way, WA
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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I find that with butt makes little difference because of the amount of internal fat and connective tissue will keep the product moist.
Brisket I find that cooking on vertical cookers or a tuned offset I have better results cooking fat side down using the fat as protection from heat as it moves through the cooker.
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Jim
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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Jim:
I cook briskets the same way, fat down, on my chargriller with excellent results. I have read that many of you top BBQ'ers do it that way so if its good enough for you, then its good enough for me.
Mr. Skull:
I will be interested to hear the outcome of your "on their side" experiment.
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Chargriller Akorn
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Hoochie-Que
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Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Park City, UT
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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We're cool, Roxy (& you, too, Jeff!)... We're cool...
I could see where I might have been seen coming across like a pompous a-hole... Just wanted to "clear the air" if some took me that way.... I'm not much of a "bullsheeter" I must confess... Bad poker player as well (no "face" for it I guess)... What you see is what you get with me, not a lot of "agendas" as a rule of thumb... Like I said, I figured my naivety was probably showing... As I'd like to think most folks here in this forum in particular would be more willing to seek some truth in things than work to promote their ego or "legend"... Maybe I don't know some of the folks in here as well as I might have thought...
I begin both my briskets and my butts fat cap "up" to begin with... Nothing behind my actions/thinking here other than "old habit", taught to me by my brother-in-law many years ago... Call it "superstition"... About 3-4 hours into the cook, I go fat side down... Some "old habit", and some logic along the lines of you and Jim, Roxy...
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Dr. Mike
Hoochie-Que BBQ Team / KCBS CBJ
"Jesus Loved Barbeque, Too" - Kinky Friedman |
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edskull69
BBQ Pro
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 510
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mar 04 2007 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | Jim:
I cook briskets the same way, fat down, on my chargriller with excellent results. I have read that many of you top BBQ'ers do it that way so if its good enough for you, then its good enough for me.
Mr. Skull:
I will be interested to hear the outcome of your "on their side" experiment. |
Roxy,
Skull is my biker name. and as far as the Mr. please !!!
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