| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
|
 Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
| Hoochie-Que wrote: | | Alien BBQ wrote: | Hey, I think we have a new game here…..guess what it is!  |
Well, let me take a stab at this... I'm not a "real doctor" as such, but am pretty darn close...  Lord knows I had my fair share of cell biology, gross anatomy, and histology...
When we eat a brisket or pork butt, we pretty much are eating striated muscle (in contrast to cardiac or smooth muscle) from the animal... In a simplistic nutshell, a "muscle" is composed of individual, specialized cells that come together to form a "bundle"... Gather a few "bundles" together, toss in some connective tissue (to hold things together, provide some elasticity, and/or to seperate a "muscle" from other organs in the region), a little fat tissue, some blood vessels, and a dash of nerve tissue - and voila, we have a real live "muscle" (or "hunk of meat" as we might call it)...
Jim was mostly correct earlier when he stated there are no pores in a brisket or pork butt ... Technically speaking, at a cellular level, the cell membrane of animal/human cells DO have "pores"... But these are NOT "pores" like me might find in mammal skin or in a plant... For the most part, "pores" - like are being discussed here - are only found in the epithelial skin of certain animals (generally mammals)... So unless you have some external skin still attached to that brisket or pork butt, you ain't going to see any "pores"...
So what are you seeing here in the photo? Mostly muscle bundles and connective tissue "sheaths", a little fat tissue, and probably a blood vessel or two... |
Great answer Hooch. I am glad some one finally got all technical here. I was beginning think we were a bunch of cave men staring at a wheel and trying to figure out just what the h@ll is that thing... 
_________________
Chargriller Akorn
WSM
LIAR #100
_________________
Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Char
BBQ Fan
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 142
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
You people have TOO much time on your hands.
Who cares, smoke on!
_________________
Smokin' it's not just a guy thing! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marvsbbq
BBQ All Star
Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 6186
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
WOW...........If
I knew that much about meat, I would 'probably' be a vegetarian
_________________
Often imitated but never duplicated |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
Great answer Hoochi-coo, I can live with “cell bundles instead of pores”. Thank you very much for the answer.
For the rest of you……..
This is a fully cooked brisket flat, pulled at 190 degrees. It was a part of an experiment in what causes smokerings. It was cooked without any rub, marinade, or liquid sprayed on it. It has been cooked for about 7 hours @225 degrees and not flipped. I also placed a piece of metal on the top and bottom to see if the smoke had to have contact with the meat to form a smokering. I will let you all decide what the outcome was. And Yes, I do have too much time on my hands.
_________________
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeloberry |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skybob
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1533
Location: Wichita, KS
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| But, how'd it taste?? You can definitely see the exact point of where the air hit the meat and where the steel laid on the meat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bedlam BBQ
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 1610
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
I'd like to throw one more question out there now that we have established that rendering fat on the outside of the meat does not penetrate back into the meat. I almost hestitate to make any sort of bold statement and if I misinterpreted something, please correct me.
If we have this understanding, then is it really necessary to spritz the meat while it is cooking? Would this still be under the same reasoning that moisture on the outside does not penetrate back into the meat? So is the moisture on the inside of the meat only caused by the breaking down of the connective tissues within the meat?
This is very interesting information. And I can see how it could change the way many of us approach how we BBQ.
_________________
Steve
Stumper clone with Stoker
Bedlam BBQ
Competition Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mutha chicken bbq
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 2225
Location: newark,de
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SoEzzy
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 13183
Location: SLC, UT
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| SStory wrote: | If we have this understanding, then is it really necessary to spritz the meat while it is cooking? Would this still be under the same reasoning that moisture on the outside does not penetrate back into the meat? So is the moisture on the inside of the meat only caused by the breaking down of the connective tissues within the meat?
|
For me spritzing is not so much adding moisture to the meat, as it is adding sugar to the bark or glaze, so that it will caramalize and provide more flavor at the outside edge.
Seeing that you can't get to all the meat without flipping it, no matter how well you spritz, you won't be totally sealing the outside with a caramalization layer, so there will still be moisture lost through that un-sealed surface.
_________________
Here's a change Robert.
I still work here! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hoochie-Que
BBQ Fan
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 371
Location: Park City, UT
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| mutha chicken bbq wrote: | | hoochi wrote "I'm not a "real doctor" But I'd be will'n to bet he's at a Holiday Inn right now |
LOL... I wish... Am actually working on a few folks teeth today... With an emphasis on "a few"... Several are not showing up today... That is why I have "a lot of time on my hands" and can work on my impersonation of Cliff Claven ( http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Clavin)... Had a big snow storm the past 2 days... Skies are clear blue here today... So they are calling, saying they had rather go skiing than come to the dentist... Imagine that...
_________________
Dr. Mike
Hoochie-Que BBQ Team / KCBS CBJ
"Jesus Loved Barbeque, Too" - Kinky Friedman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bedlam BBQ
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 1610
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| SoEzzy wrote: | | SStory wrote: | If we have this understanding, then is it really necessary to spritz the meat while it is cooking? Would this still be under the same reasoning that moisture on the outside does not penetrate back into the meat? So is the moisture on the inside of the meat only caused by the breaking down of the connective tissues within the meat?
|
For me spritzing is not so much adding moisture to the meat, as it is adding sugar to the bark or glaze, so that it will caramalize and provide more flavor at the outside edge.
Seeing that you can't get to all the meat without flipping it, no matter how well you spritz, you won't be totally sealing the outside with a caramalization layer, so there will still be moisture lost through that un-sealed surface. |
That is a perfect explanation. Thank you. I had been told before that people spritz to add moisture so the meat doesn't dry out. But after we all just learned moisture goes out but not in, I had to question the reasoning. So now I know spritzing is for bark creation. So I guess injecting would be the only way to add moisture to the inside, other than what naturally is present from the rendering of the connective tissues.
Thanks again.
_________________
Steve
Stumper clone with Stoker
Bedlam BBQ
Competition Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DawgPhan
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 3444
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| Sure I dont think that dumping water onto of a 1/2 cooked butt is going to get more moisture into the butt, but I think that it can slow the migration of moisture from inside the meat...so while it wont add moisture it can help produce a moister hunk of meat... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
Plus that, the fat does add some self basting features. Same as when I cook with bacon!
Awesome guys (and gals) workin on page 5 here! Pretty impressive, been a while since we had a debate this good!
_________________
BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jminion
BBQ Fan
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Federal Way, WA
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| DawgPhan wrote: | | Sure I dont think that dumping water onto of a 1/2 cooked butt is going to get more moisture into the butt, but I think that it can slow the migration of moisture from inside the meat...so while it wont add moisture it can help produce a moister hunk of meat... |
Adding water to a cooker (offset let's say) if it helps keep heat spikes in down it will help the overall moisture content of finished product.
_________________
Jim
Traeger Mobile
WSMs
Primos
BGE
Rancher kettle
Klose Mobile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
When I was doing this, I had cut the flat into equal thirds, The one that I placed in a pan and basted with EVOO finished two hours ahead of all the other flats. Do you think that spritzing speeds the cooking process by allowing a better heat transfer to the meat?
By the way, after viewing the worms in pork video, I went out and bought some pork and coke….no worms, but it made a great marinade!
_________________
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeloberry |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jminion
BBQ Fan
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Federal Way, WA
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
Alien
I think braising in the pan had more to do with the earlier finish than just spraying down a brisket every once and a while.
_________________
Jim
Traeger Mobile
WSMs
Primos
BGE
Rancher kettle
Klose Mobile
Last edited by jminion on Mar 03 2007; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jminion
BBQ Fan
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Federal Way, WA
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
The transfer of heat from the hot liquid in the pan into the brisket will speed up the cook, wrapping in foil would make it even faster cause it's sealed.
_________________
Jim
Traeger Mobile
WSMs
Primos
BGE
Rancher kettle
Klose Mobile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alien BBQ
BBQ All Star
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 5426
Location: Roswell, New Mexico
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff T
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 4207
Location: Norfolk, Nebraska
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
So what is the point with all this mumbo jumbo science crap?
Come on fellas. Here`s how it goes........
Was it tender?
Was it tasty?
Was the color inviting?
If the judges say so then you get to take the two dollar ribbon home.
Lets move on. I`m damb sure most all of ya are way smarter than me.
Life was easier in kindergarden when we played "king of the hill" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skybob
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1533
Location: Wichita, KS
|
| Posted: Mar 03 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| Hey there JeffT, like your new avatar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Memberlist 
Usergroups
Register
Profile 
Log in to check your private messages 
Log in 
