My sauce is turning to jelly... need help if

ssarich1 · Newbie Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 33

Hey guys.I have been lurking here on the forms for a couple of years and wanted to ask a question for the professionals.

I have been open since labor day. Things have been going well until recently. My sauce gets good reviews like " I want to drink it". However there is a problem.

I make my sauce and a day or so later it is turning into a solid. Is there anything that I can do or any advise that can keep this from happening. Keep in mind that it is a big batch recipe.

Thanks for any help or advice.
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RodinBangkok · Posted: Dec 16 2013 Post subject:

A bit more detail might help, not looking for your recipe. If your keeping it at a holding temp you are probably loosing moisture that needs to be replaced. Secondly what type of thickener are you using, flour, starch, other or none. As thickeners cool they continue to absorb and will need adjustment to your original consistency. If your sauce is cooked then served cold you need to adjust the consistency looser when its hot so it stays more liquid when cool. If your using a starch or flour make sure its brought up to a simmer when made to insure it is incorporated properly. Trying to shotgun this without more details, but perhaps this will help.
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ssarich1 · Newbie Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 33

The batch I make.

8 cups ketchup
2 cups water
2 cups apple juice
2 1/2 cups vinegar
1 cup white sugar
1 cup brown sugar

Then some powder ingredients

Bring to boil. Then turn off. Leave at room temperature.
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ssarich1 · Newbie Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 33

I should also add that there is no central air. It goes from hot during operation to cool at night?

Suggestions on holding techniques that may help.
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RodinBangkok · Posted: Dec 16 2013 Post subject:

Your don't seem to be using any ingredients with starches, is it splitting out?
You may need to give it a stir, as if its not mixed, as you use it the liquids will be towards the surface, and the solids may be separating, then evaporating liquid out. You may just need to add water, but taste the thick, then adjust with water.
You might want to play with adding a small amount of starch to your recipe before you bring to a boil, this can help keep the sauce consolidated. Corn Starch or tapioca starch would work. Just take a couple tables spoons of starch in a small bowl, add some water and mix till its a smooth firm liquid, with no lumps, then slowly add this to your sauce and bring to a simmer, don't add too much as it will thicken as it reaches simmer, and it will get thicker as it cools. A little bit at first may work, you don't want to add too much, just to enough to see if it keeps the sauce from separating.
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SoEzzy · Posted: Dec 16 2013 Post subject:

I don't make as many sauces as I used to, but I suspect your solidification may be down to the sugars and the powders reacting to set the liquid the same way pectin or gelatin do in jelly's and preserves, Tomatoes do contain pectin, so IMO you are getting gelling from the pectin and the sugars.
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ssarich1 · Newbie Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 33

Any suggestions would help me. I appreciate all the input so far.
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SoEzzy · Posted: Dec 16 2013 Post subject:

You might add vegetable stock until you get the thickness that you want, or you may just give it a good shake and the added heat from the shaking may return it to the flow you want.

You can also change the acidity, with more vinegar and see if that thins things out correctly!
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Shotgun Petes · Posted: Dec 16 2013 Post subject:

I don't cook my sauces. I just mix them up and keep them in 2 gallon containers in the walk in cooler. The squeeze bottles I put out during the day for customers sit out on a table for their use and replacements for those as they get emptied come from a reach -in cooler on the prep line. That happens a lot during the day since customers really go through the sauce!

One of my sauces is very simular to yours.
They usually have a good shelf life but once in a while I notice a bottle start to get bubbles ( not a good thing) and it smells way sweeter like it has fermented. This has only happened once every few months and I don't know why, but its not been an issue since I watch it very closely and the replacement rate of sauce is constant when we are open.

I wonder if your sauce is getting jelly like because of the cooking process. Cooking sugars can really thicken them up once they cool, just like when you would make candy. Just a thought.
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Harry Nutczak · Posted: Dec 17 2013 Post subject:

I'm siding with the bear on this.

You have two items in there that contain pectin, And pectin is a gelling agent and doubly so when combined with sugars.

I would weigh out how much water is needed to get it to the consistency that you want when it is cold, and add that weight of water to the recipe before you cook it.

The reason I say "Weigh" the water is to be more accurate, and then it is easier to interpolate amount when scaling your batch size.

do a search for "Bakers Percents" to get the idea of how it works, it really makes things easier once you get it figured out.

I'm guessing your tomato is the highest percentage in your recipe, so call tomato your "100%" figure. And every other ingredient is a percentage of that.
So lets say your tomato is 1 gallon, and your vinegar is a quart,
this would equate to a recipe that would look like this:
Tomato 100%
vinegar 25%
etc
etc
etc
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ssarich1 · Newbie Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 33

I appreciate everyone's insight. I am going to attempt to not cook the sauce and see what that does. I do not want to water it down. I have done this recently and it was not good.

I do not want to change sauce because people like it. Maybe there is a big batch sauce you guys have and could share that is successful for you.

Thanks again
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qfanatic01 · Posted: Dec 17 2013 Post subject:

I make a sauce base for my tomato based sauces and then finish it in 3 main variations. The one that I finish with jalapenos, fresh herbs and coffee, gels up. I haven't ever bothered to do a break down to see which ingredient is causing the reaction and it really doesn't matter, it happens. Anyway, I blend it again the next day after it fully cools and it then stays smooth. Phil (Shotgun Pete's) mentioned fermenting, we leave our sauces on the table and top off throughout the week, then pull all and put in portion cups on Sunday. All gone by Tuesday. I think unless you are keeping a sauce refrigerated at all times I would cook it. There are too many ways to contaminate a sauce, even if you think you have sanitized all your equipment. The only way to really be sure would be to heat sterilize everything, like a hospital and they still have problems with staph and such. Or have single service containers, which will cost you a ton jn containers and waste. That is how we did it up until a year or so ago and we went through about 50% more sauce and twice the portion cups. I have saved thousands of dollars by putting our 2 most popular sauces on the table and bring out other choices as requested. We make 5 gallons of our tomato based sauce nearly every day which is cooked. We had a similar experience as Phil with Ketchup. We would refill the bottles, when the bottles didn't look new anymore we would throw them out. For those who don't know, it is common practice to refill bottles in the industry, obviously with some risk, but it saves a ton of money. One day I check my online comments and a guy commented about his daughter getting whiskey ketchup. OMG! I felt horrible. Needless to say I have made sure since to keep our rotation on ketchup a lot tighter managed. The first time I had fermented ketchup is when I ran a place right before I started my joint and we had a ketchup pump at the counter, we burned through a jug usually everyday. We took apart the pumps and sanitized but one day we ended up with a can that was fermenting. Not sure where the ball was dropped, name brand ketchup. Only thing I could think was that one of my staff wasn't following protocol. Still surprised as ketchup and BBQ's hi acid level usually makes it safe for a week or so at room temp. It sure was easier and cheaper running a restaurant that only had virgin olive oil and Parmesan cheese on the tables to rotate out every week. I hope this helps.
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ssarich1 · Newbie Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 33

thank you guys for all the responses and help that you gave me. Your Insight And Knowledge Is Awesome.

I Started Back At Square One And Changed How I Was Combining Everything. Simple Solution. I Heated vinegar, Water, And All Other ingredients. I got that going to rolling boil for a little while and then added all of my Ketchup.

No Issues This Week.

So Thanks Again.

Also,

I do not know what is wrong with my keyboard and it is capitalizing all these letters at every word whenever it wants to.
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SoEzzy · Posted: Dec 22 2013 Post subject:

If you are using your smart phone, there is a setting on the Swype keyboard that does that.

If you are using a browser with javascript enabled, Swiftkey can do that to your typing too!
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ssarich1 · Newbie Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 33

Dang Ezzy......do you know everything??

Thanks man. It is the Swype, but not sure what button i hit to do it.
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SoEzzy · Posted: Dec 23 2013 Post subject:

Nope I don't know everything... but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express before, and I do know where and when to take the time to Google a question and get a valid result! Wink

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Here's a change Robert.

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marubozo · Newbie Joined: 26 Mar 2013 Posts: 45 Location: SW Michigan