Argh! New inspector thinks HAACP is required to BBQ

YardFullOfOak · Posted: Apr 12 2013 Post subject:

[quote="Harry Nutczak"]

daddywoofdawg · Posted: Apr 12 2013 Post subject:

If they feel there is a need for a haccp,then why not a shorter streamlined plan for those doing under xxxlbs per whatever.Not everyone is going to do 10 semi loads a week for resale.
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Geronimo · Posted: Apr 13 2013 Post subject:

Harry Nutczak · Posted: Apr 13 2013 Post subject:

daddywoofdawg · Posted: Apr 15 2013 Post subject:

So If you just smoke some pork belly no haccp. But if you put cure on it you have to do a haccp.
_________________
Good BBQ is all smoke and beers!
The Dawghouse Custom vertical Gasser
Custom Made offset smoker
Char grill smoker
Weber kettle

Harry Nutczak · Posted: Apr 16 2013 Post subject:

Geronimo · Posted: Apr 16 2013 Post subject:

Harry Nutczak · Posted: Apr 16 2013 Post subject:

Wow, Just Wow!

The county I moved to is known for lesser regulations,
Sign permit is $20.00 compared to the $375.00 at old place
Conditional use permit not required here, old place it cost $500.00 and took 6 months to acquire one.

The parking, zoning, and everything else is so much less hassle in this county (same county in which I reside) compared to where I was.

The health department is new here, less than 3 years of existence, this was an area handled by the state department.
I am still waiting for a clarification from federal on their use of the word "Curing", and if it is what I suspect, I can ignore all these demands from my local inspector.
In the federal food code, the section that applies to variances is all about "Smoking for preservation" Using vinegar for preservation" "Modified atmosphere packaging for preservation" and the single word "curing", so reading between the lines, it leads me to believe they are referring to "curing as a method of preservation" such as Prosciutto hams, country hams, and all sorts of other pork products that are eaten raw.

Lets look at corned beef, (which is what I am using as an example with them) it is cured, but not as an act of preservation, but instead to modify color and texture.
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Harry Nutczak · Posted: Apr 17 2013 Post subject:

I guess I raised enough stink, I got a call from our state head of the health department today, I explained to him that I am "Not curing as a method of preservation" but instead using it as a flavor/color/texture modifier, and he clearly stated I DO NOT NEED A VARIANCE, I DO NOT NEED A HACCP PLAN, I DO NOT NEED TO DO ANY OF THE CRAP MY LOCAL INSPECTOR SAID THAT I AM REQUIRED TO DO!!

Moral of the story, QUESTION AUTHORITY!!!
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animal · BBQ Pro Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 935 Location: Wisconsin

Congratulations
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Geronimo · Posted: Apr 17 2013 Post subject:

GREAT JOB Harry for standing your ground and challenging the authority of those that THINK they know when in fact, they don't have a clue. Wink

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Harry Nutczak · Posted: Apr 17 2013 Post subject:

The screwed up part of this, when all this crap started, I called this same guy for clarification, and he backed the statement of my inspector.

So I brought up the surrounding context of that section in the food code and pointed out that every other method that requires a variance, HACCP, etc was being used "As a method of Preservation" .
"Smoking as a method of preservation"
The "use of vinegar as a method of preservation" Modified atmosphere packaging, But only the single word of "Curing" with no definition, and not specifically stating for preservation purposes or just a flavor modifier.

I used "Corned Beef" as my example because it is not a method of preservation as much as it is a flavor/color/texture modifier and it is also a product that is fully cooked before consumption.

Then I compared that to products such as Prosciutto, Salami and other products that are eaten raw and the hazards involved with the consumption of raw pork that has been hanging around for 6 months and the need for a HACCP plan due to the inherent dangers involved with that process.
It only took a few weeks, but he agreed with my interpretation after further research.

So, I have a thorough and complete formal HACCP plan for sale if anyone wants it. The first $2,500.00 takes it.
It would be filed under "Raw, not shelf-stable" (bacon)
I can send it in MS word format, or print it on almost any type of paper you may want, maybe even hand delivered if you so request. (Contiguous USA only)
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Just remember that the toes you may step on during your climb to the top will also be attached to the a$$es you'll be forced to kiss on your way back down!

qfanatic01 · Posted: Apr 18 2013 Post subject:

Good for you Harry. Now you too know far more than you needed to, to do your every day work. Makes you fell like a frikken genius doesn't it, when it was just common sense. Now that you wasted how much time and money for nothing you can get back to work and maybe make more than minimum wage for you special knowledge and skills. Good luck buddy. I wish I could say that's the end of the BS
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corndog · Posted: Apr 18 2013 Post subject:

Great job Harry, but get his reply in writing!!!!
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Dang it boy, that's some mighty fine eatin'!!!!

Harry Nutczak · Posted: Apr 18 2013 Post subject:

Geronimo · Posted: Apr 19 2013 Post subject:

qfanatic01 · Posted: Apr 19 2013 Post subject:

We have to have a certified person on premises during any production. Two of my kids are also certified. I think anyone handling food should have a basic knowledge of food safety and this would be a good place for our health department to adapt something that doesn't already exist. If it does they should be distributing it.
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The lessons are in the customer's criticism. They aren't always right. The rewards are their satisfaction.

ckone · Posted: Apr 19 2013 Post subject:

Geronimo · Posted: Apr 19 2013 Post subject:

ckone WA state is the same way..every worker has to take (and pass) the food handlers test. But when the inspector comes, they (inspector) only talk to the PIC (person in charge).

As far as the on line testing, I can see where that is quick and easy (for the workers) but I can also see where that can (and does) become scammed by many. Shocked

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ckone · Posted: Apr 19 2013 Post subject: