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Manana
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PostPosted: Oct 01 2012    Post subject: Jeez! Reply with quote

2 teachers in our district were arrested on drug charges including selling near a school this weekend. The district and police however are saying there is no indication they were selling to students. One is my daughters keyboarding teacher and the other works at the high school. Shocked


on a side note and I am not by any means using this as an excuse. The keyboarding teacher was in a serious car accident a few years back and not expected to live due to severe brain injury.
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masoncat1
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to be on drugs to teach keyboarding, lol.
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Mr Tony's BBQ
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know my high school math teacher was compensated a mere $115,000.00 2 years ago [ last time I checked] , not including pay and perks for coaching track.........how can they expect them to survive on such a pittance... Shocked no wonder they turn to moonlighting those 3+ months they have off and evenings when they have T.A.'s grading papers....you're area may vary, I can prove these points for my part of the country.
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without bringing the politics of location, teacher starting salaries are generally lower than any comparison of the educated workforce in this country, Wisconsin pays $41,000 a year to starting teachers, to be earning over $100,000 a teacher must have done 20 + years of teaching.

Teachers fail to launch in similar numbers to restaurants, out of 100's of teachers that graduate yearly, about 20% never actually teach, 25% - 30% that do teach, will teach for less than 2 years, so in 3 years you are down to just over 50%, pretty devastating numbers which is why teachers that teach for more than 10 years are on reasonable pay.

Of course if you think they get too much money, one can always take your kids out of class, and home school them instead... of course that may mean your wife, (or you), may need a job that allows for flexible time, or better yet no job at all, because they'd need to do a good job with 2 or 3 kids, instead of dealing with 28 - 30.

And what does that stay at home, home teacher cost a family... well obviously, whatever that person could be earning in their own right outside the home.

There are some that manage to run a home business and educate their kids in a homeschool environment, and with care and attention to detail, and a broad set of friends and like minded families, your kids may grow up as well rounded people, but there's also a good chance that they won't. Wink
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Manana
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The school she goes to is pretty good. It has improved a lot the last 4 years under the current principal. I'm sad that this happened because it sets the school back in the eyes of the community. They had tv camera's interviewing people just off campus and when I saw them on tv I wanted to go find the people and just slap them. "You send your kids to school and think they are safe and blah blah blah" The teacher was not arrested on school grounds. The school was made aware of her being investigated and therefore became more aware of what she was doing at the school. I don't feel my daughter is anymore at danger this week than she was last week. Don't get me wrong, I know there are dangers of going to a public school or any place in public these days and I pay attention, talk to her and try to curb anything negative that happens by talking to her about it or contacting the school She has to know how to deal with negative things such as this on her own eventually so I don't think hiding her or home schooling her is the option. Parents expect the schools to do everything and don't want to put any time in themselves...well try that and see how it works out for you.

ok rant over...for now Laughing
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Tim_Abrahamson
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I have a masters degree and have taught High School in GA. Best I made was 41k... I left a good job with the Federal Reserve to do that. If you think teaching is a job that pays well... think again. You wont starve but you wont get rich either.
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Manana
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim_Abrahamson wrote:
Hmmm... I have a masters degree and have taught High School in GA. Best I made was 41k... I left a good job with the Federal Reserve to do that. If you think teaching is a job that pays well... think again. You wont starve but you wont get rich either.


I know it's unusual for a teacher to make $115,000 like mentioned above. However I also don't think the lower salary means they should go out and peddle drugs to supplement their income.
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Tim_Abrahamson
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah...coached baseball also - extracurricular support is required of most teachers at no additional compensation.

Let me describe a typical day expected of a 41k teacher.

Be in school by 7am to monitor halls and help students before class. Update the lesson plan log (explained later)
8:15 take roll
Teach 5 different subjects across 7 periods. I am supposed to get 1 period for planning but they conveniently put that during my lunch period. I also had to monitor the lunch room every 3rd day so that is even less time for planning.

4:30 start baseball practice. 6:30-7:00 end baseball practice

Go home to eat.

8:00 Start lesson plans - every class has to have the next day's planned course work outlined and fully documented. Since I had 5 different courses and 7 classes this is done 7x.

10:00 - start grading papers, homework. Writing quizzes and tests. Do the homework, take the quizzes and tests to make sure there are no issues or errors in the material and I can explain everything correctly.

Midnight - go to bed

Yeah we get 3 months in the summer when we aren't teaching... guess what... we DON'T get paid for those 3 months! Yes its true. Oh but we have to attend 2-8 weeks of continuing education on our own dime just so they will allow us to teach the next year. There are also multiple in-service workshops (at least we get paid for those) and then we have to be means tested every year to see if we are doing the job we are being paid to do. We don't get the full holiday schedule as we will often have a teacher workshop scheduled on the off day since "all the teachers will be available then."

Teachers are evaluated on how their students perform. But this evaluation does not take into account what the student has done in the past, what their home life is like, their socioeconomic status, the availability of adult role models or parental support. I would have 3 pre-calculus classes with roughly the same number of students (26-32) and 85 students will do great on the standardized tests and 15 will bomb it. Same teacher, same lesson plan, same homework, same text book... but a teacher is only asked about the students that fell short.

Oh yeah, I also have to deal with teaching students with ADD, hyperactivity disorder, social disorders, Chrones disease, cancer, mental retardation, dyslexia, drug addictions etc.. We are told "Just treat them as any other student. They want to feel like a normal child." The term for this is "mainstreaming." News flash... they are not normal. They have issues that require additional attention, time and effort. I don't mind giving the extra attention... but not at the expense of the other 200 students I see in my classes!

This is why I no longer teach!


p.s. - The profession of a drug dealer is not the problem but the idiot who thinks dealing drugs is a substitute for hard work and a good education.
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Last edited by Tim_Abrahamson on Oct 02 2012; edited 2 times in total
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Tim_Abrahamson
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry...grumpy this morning and its kind of a sore subject for me!

I loved every day of teaching. The genuine satisfaction I get from seeing young people growing up before your eyes and all their potential. The intangibles of the job are very high... but I can make 2x the money for a 8-10 hour day elsewhere and still have time to spend with my family.
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Tim_Abrahamson
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PostPosted: Oct 02 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manana wrote:


I know it's unusual for a teacher to make $115,000 like mentioned above. However I also don't think the lower salary means they should go out and peddle drugs to supplement their income.


I agree... criminals can be found in all walks of life and all professions. I don't think the wages one makes will cause anyone to change their character.
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BUGSnBBQ
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PostPosted: Oct 03 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim_Abrahamson wrote:
Sorry...grumpy this morning


Don't be sorry for that. You told it like it (unfortunately) is.
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Manana
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PostPosted: Oct 03 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim thought you might like this.

http://www.upworthy.com/omg-teacher-lays-the-smack-down-on-people-who-think-teachers-have-it-easy
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PostPosted: Oct 03 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure why I rarely get notice that someone replied to posts, glad I looked.......



Tim_Abrahamson wrote:
Manana wrote:


I know it's unusual for a teacher to make $115,000 like mentioned above. However I also don't think the lower salary means they should go out and peddle drugs to supplement their income.


I agree... criminals can be found in all walks of life and all professions. I don't think the wages one makes will cause anyone to change their character.


I agree, there are criminals and great people in ALL walks of life, I personally know a couple in the law enforcement arena that should be cuffing themselves....
That being said, I take it your local news doesnt report about Wi or Chicago over the past 2 years - its ugly, they have either changed, or were criminal from the get go...
I have sat in on too many school board meetings, met with too many superintendents, had too many one on one's with teachers, done too much work for teachers as a contractor and listened to their "problems", watched too many both vocal and silent protests etc etc etc to side with the profession as a whole at this point in history in this part of the country - their outspoken members HAVE disgraced the profession as a whole in these parts - I KNOW not all are this way, I KNOW many do care for the students and KNOW many go into the profession for all the right reasons - I also KNOW they knew what they were getting themselves into before taking the job having been educated themselves first hand, and when they scream "we are raising these kids and DESERVE higher pay for doing it" [ actual quote used routinely in these parts] they need to actually follow thru, because if they are, they are failing, miserably.....
Did I mention - my older son IS a qualified teacher and my younger son is still in College working on his degree, which includes teaching [ both as minors] and I support there decisions fully?? My wife has been approached on several occasions to teach at our H.S.?? I myself am not qualified because I didnt bother with the 1 final credit needed to get my associates degree, [my concern was the education I needed, not # of credits] - which is all it takes to substitute teach in Wi, full time - with 25 years carpentry experience I can teach full time in a College but not a H.S.
I am certainly not whining that point as I HAVE taught for about 8 years now , on and off, part time, to individuals in middle school to people older than I, just not as a state employee...
Teaching used to be an honorable profession in these parts, certain groups have done all they can to destroy that from within in the name of gaining respect and bigger salaries, and its a shame.
The 115k applies to my auto shop teacher [ only 1 example] , go get a job doing mechanic work outside a H.S. for that kind of money - I dont know auto shop OWNERS pulling in 6 figures in this economy, much less demanding higher wages.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/99999999/WIS0110/399990901/DataMine-Search-Wisconsin-teacher-salaries
Feel free to type in common names to see the numbers I speak of if you think I'm incorrect about actual salaries and bennies, bennies second only to congressmen IMHO.
Also, Wi teachers a: have first dibs on all coaching jobs b: even if Vince Lombardi himself wanted to coach a Green Bay H.S. for free, a teacher [ if one wanted the position] would get the job and be paid quite nicely, per contracts....have seen that [ similar ] scenario play out first hand.....
There's my final rant on this....These are my opinions based on actual life experiences, YMMV. Have a nice day!
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Manana
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PostPosted: Oct 04 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I hope I never implied at any time that I don't like teachers or I think they are over paid. Like it was said previously there are bad apples in every profession. What saddens me about this particular event is that the work that has been done over the last few years to improve the school and get the schools reputation up, was ruined by 1 bad apple.
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PostPosted: Oct 04 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Tony,

Wisconsin is another world away from the rest of the US. They arguably have the strongest teachers union and it is reflected in their wages and benefits. (dont get me started on unions supporting political agendas rather than their constituents)

One of the reasons you will see a trade professional making better wages than the average teacher has to do with scarcity of resources.

Over the last 10-20 years the educational emphasis has been on preparing students for college. They did this at the expense of vocational and technical tracks for education. Only in a few places do we still see viable vocational education within public school districts - like Wisconsin. As a result the demand for VoEd teachers has plummeted. Now add a few years to this mix and when there is actually a need for a VoEd teacher they are no where to be found.

(let me qualify) A VoEd teacher must not only be a skilled tradesman but must also have an accredited 4 year degree - preferably in teaching, must have a clean arrest record, must pass the general PRAXIS exam, must pass the trades PRAXIS which quizzes them in ALL trade disciplines to be taught in a VoEd school, and be fully licensed to teach (either nationally or within the state). You can sub without this but cannot be on staff. All this before they are even considered to be a candidate. Those folks are hard to come by and because there are very few VoEd teaching jobs out there there is no economic incentive for a tradesman to go through all that hassle with no real expectation of getting a return on their investment.

This is one of the great failings in our educational system. There is nothing wrong with a profession as a skilled tradesman. This is a good living and we need people in this country that know how to make things, fix things and make our country better. Many students would rather do this than hope their ability to take SAT will get them ahead in this life. We are doing this country and our children a disservice by denying them this career path.

We currently have to hire many of our welders, electricians, plumbers, mechanics, carpenters and heavy machine operators from third world neighbors. These jobs should be going to willing Americans. But these jobs go unfilled.

My best friend's son dropped out of college to be a welder. After 4 years now he is pulling down 80k where if he had continued on the education track he started (history major) his prospects for a good paying job was rather bleak, and he would have lots of student loan debt.

No it doesn't surprise me to hear a VoEd teacher pulling down an abnormally high wage... after all, he really is the VoEd lottery winner!
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