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My Sourdough pizza fail...
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Oregon smoker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 12:08 pm    Post subject: My Sourdough pizza fail... Reply with quote

Let me preface this by saying that the last pizza/1st that i made we used KA bread flour. This time we used Bobs Red mill flour and the recipe for pizza dough off the side of the bag. Then since i asked the wife to start the dough at lunch time while she was home she thought tap water would be frigging wonderful to use Shocked. I wanted to shoot for a neopolitan style pizza, nice big air bubbles, spacious crumb, the type of dough you get from a pizza joint. Apparently she thought i said i wanted a goddamn cracker thin, dense dough, which is what we ended up with. Its a good thing she likes that dough, to bad she doesnt like black olives, but she will get practice. I aint eating any of it.
On to the pictures.


Ours and the oldest's crusts


Gratuitious meat shot...


One fat azz and One kick azz daughter


She is stoked. I tried not to help to much.


Sauce, some cheese, sausage


Loaded up


Ready for the oven


Out of the oven


Not impressed... Shocked

I am starting to get discouraged. When i started to try to learn about baking and how to use starters i was really excited. But after several failures with bread and now some questionable results with pizza i am just about done.
Worst thing about it is that i asked my wife if she knew how to bake bread and if she could help, "Yes, i do, and i can" came the answer. I am starting to think that was a sham.
Sorry. Just got to vent a little.
Best part of it was making pizza with my daughter.
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the failures edible at all?

If they are, then there is room for improvement!

Don't over work the dough!

You can also pick up a cheap bread maker, follow the instructions, see what it does and how it does it, then repeat those steps yourself.

Try the 5 minute bread I posted here http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47509
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st try success-2nd try failure? Batting .500 isn't all that bad Wink Don't give up. Have you been to this forum? --->Pizza Making. Right now, first post under Neopolitan style is about non-inflating pizza. I'm by no means a baker, but I have been researching a chit ton before I delve into yet another hobby/aggravation Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoEzzy wrote:
Are the failures edible at all?

If they are, then there is room for improvement!

Don't over work the dough!

You can also pick up a cheap bread maker, follow the instructions, see what it does and how it does it, then repeat those steps yourself.

Try the 5 minute bread I posted here http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47509


Thanks.
I saw that recipe and its not something i have tried yet.
Just getting tired of seemingly no success.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tacklebox wrote:
1st try success-2nd try failure? Batting .500 isn't all that bad Wink Don't give up. Have you been to this forum? --->Pizza Making. Right now, first post under Neopolitan style is about non-inflating pizza. I'm by no means a baker, but I have been researching a chit ton before I delve into yet another hobby/aggravation Very Happy



Yup.
Just spent 45 minutes looking at that forum. 30 minutes of showing her what crust "I" want not the cracker thin, dense as focking playdough chit that we ended up with tonight.
Sorry, i am just pissed off that i let the dough responsibilities get away from me. I will have to start another batch of dough for a pie this weekend. I have been seeing some nice results with the cold fermentation method.
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ArnoldZiffel
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OS,

Pizzas looked pretty good to me. If you were able to eat them great, but its like you said the best part was making them with your daughter. Years from now all that will be remembered is making the pizza with her. Keep plugging away. Hell I'm still trying to smoke a good brisket after 15 years! Laughing And my daughter likes Famous Dave's better.

AZ
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried par baking the crusts? Fork some holes in it to allow steam to escape, bake until it starts to rise [ I am assuming your looking for a thick crust...] then add toppings and back in - looks like your using all pre-cooked meats so thats not an issue....keep on trying - mine usually end up too thick....bust be the altitude... Confused
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30 11 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArnoldZiffel wrote:
Pizzas looked pretty good to me.


Same here, but I pride myself on making newspaper thin pizza crust.

It seems like you had way too many variables (KA vs. Red Mill, different recipes, different water, different cooks) so I don't really think you can call it a fail.

I've been experimenting with different bread recipes (for actual loaves) and have never been able to achieve a really open texture (like a ciabatta) no matter what I do.


ArnoldZiffel wrote:
And my daughter likes Famous Dave's better.


I actually think FD isn't bad for a nationwide chain. It's not the pinnacle of barbecue, but it's not bad either.

That said, all three of my girls prefer my ribs to Dave's. They have even named them Famous Dad's Ribs. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this recipe and process from Breadtopia. I have not tried it yet, as I am in search of the perfect sourdough bread loaf at the moment, but pizza is next on my bucket list!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys!
It maks me feel a little better that some of you would eat it.
I am still working on bread while working on pizza. I wonder if i should work on 1 or the other till its mastered?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you work on just pulled pork, or only ribs, or brisket, or moinks and nothing else until you mastered it - I would think not! Laughing
Give 'er - on one or the other, all of a sudden your gonna go - THATS what I was doing wrong!
I highly recommend proofing your yeast if you dont already - I've had a few failures due to sleepy yeast.....
Best of luck to you - enjoy your mishaps! Based on all your other cooks, they cant be all that bad Confused Wink Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I make sourdough bread, but I've only been making it for a couple of months and I haven't tried SD pizza yet.

For pizza crust, I use whatever cheap bread flour I get at Sam's Club. Use 2 cups of it, 1 cup of water, 1 tsp salt, 1/2 tsp yeast, and a little oil. Using jsut half the flour, I mix everything in a plastic bowl until it kind of looks like thick lumpy pancake batter. Stir in the rest of the flour, snap on the lid, and put it in the fridge. Wait at least 24 hours before baking it, usually 2 or 3 days. The long slow rise takes the place of kneading, and it develops the flavor -- plus I'm lazy. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon, where is the missus from? In the northeast a very thin crust is desired, not that thick Chicago deep dish stuff. We also have the thick, square Sicilian style which has a slightly different flavor. That slice looks fine to me unless what is on top of it is offensive. I do mine in a bread machine to start and then toss/roll it out nice and thin. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sucks that you were not happy with your results i dont have much experience with pan style but i did work at a pizza joint when i was kid part of my job was to premake the crust for the cooks. we would form a ball and let the crust rise over night (in the deep dish pan) in the walk in freezer in the morning the cooks would pull the crust out to pan size it to fit and let it rise again top it and cook.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon smoker wrote:
Thanks guys!
It maks me feel a little better that some of you would eat it.
I am still working on bread while working on pizza. I wonder if i should work on 1 or the other till its mastered?


They are both bread. The pizza joint I ran made foccacia and hoagies out of the same dough we used for the pies. I recipe, 3 breads. I'd give you the recipe from there, but it is packed away somewhere in a POD. It was a real forgiving dough.

I always try to use High gluten flour, and know of at least one pizza place here that does NY style that also uses it. (and they are as close to NY as you get not there) For true Neapolitan you need 00 flour. If you really want to nitpick it, you need buffalo mozzarella too, and to cook in a wood fired oven. But I know one step at a time.

Back to the dough, ours mixed for 2 minutes on low, then went 10 min on medium, rest 30 minutes, then portion and ball. Once balled they would go straight to the walkin cooler. The best crusts always came from the batch that sat in the cooler overnight.

The foccacia was simple. Stretch the dough ball into an oval, dock, brush with garlic oil, sprinkle with coarse salt and chopped rosemary. Bake on a stone until done. (unless you have a coal fired oven, my time and temp won't help, so until done)

For hoagies, take the dough ball and tuck it into itself while rolling on a table. Score the top and allow to rise until double the size. Egg wash and bake. (see oven note above)

Keep trying, if for no other reason than it is a good time shared with your daughter. My kiddo just turned 2 and I already have her helping me in the kitchen. She can almost beat eggs. And is real good at patting things into other things.


Edit: Oh, and I would eat that pizza. My favorite is a NY style, but I like cracker thin too, also deep dish, take and bake, and sometimes even the big delivery guys. It is all still pizza, and they all remind me of different times and places.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone and their suggestions.
From hear on out i am going to use KA flour. I am going to start a batch of dough tonight for a 3 day cold ferment. I do pitch my yeast before dumping it in, and i havent asked if she did the same last night. I was just really pissed last night and about to give up. But i cant do that, i hate admitting defeat.
And yes the best part is spending time with my family learning how to do this and eating the mistakes(altough i am not eating this one).
I will also take another shot at a loaf of bread. I can master multiple things at once, you should see what i do here at work... Shocked

Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a great pizza to me Jason. And like AZ said it was time well spent with the little princess. All the best.

--Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep at it OS. That is a good looking thin crust pie. Don't be too bummed out with the Mrs. I would have patted mine on the back. I love thin crust zsa.

I cheat when I make pizza dough and use my bread machine. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not sour dough, but its really easy...

Cold Ferment Pizza Dough

4 1/2 cups (20.25 ounces) unbleached high-gluten, bread, or all-purpose flour, chilled
1 3/4 (.44 ounce) teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon (.11 ounce) instant yeast
1/4 cup (2 ounces) olive oil (optional)
1 3/4 cups (14 ounces) water, ice cold (40F)
Semolina flour OR cornmeal for dusting

1. Stir together the flour, salt, and instant yeast in a 4-quart bowl (or in the bowl of an electric mixer). With a large metal spoon, stir in the oil and the cold water until the flour is all absorbed (or mix on low speed with the paddle attachment), If you are mixing by hand, repeatedly dip one of your hands or the metal spoon into cold water and use it, much like a dough hook, to work the dough vigorously into a smooth mass while rotating the bowl in a circular motion with the other hand. Reverse the circular motion a few times to develop the gluten further. Do this for 5 to 7 minutes, or until the dough is smooth and the ingredients are evenly distributed. If you are using an electric mixer, switch to the dough hook and mix on medium speed for 5 to 7 minutes, or as long as it takes to create a smooth, sticky dough. The dough should clear the sides of the bowl but stick to the bottom of the bowl. If the dough is too wet and doesn't come off the sides of the bowl, sprinkle in some more flour just until it clears the sides. If it clears the bottom of the bowl, dribble in a tea- spoon or two of cold water. The finished dough will be springy, elastic, and sticky, not just tacky, and register 50 to 55F.


2. Sprinkle flour on the counter and transfer the dough to the counter. Prepare a sheet pan by lining it with baking parchment and misting the parchment with spray oil (or lightly oil the parchment). Using a metal dough scraper, cut the dough into 6 equal pieces (or larger if you are comfortable shaping large pizzas), You can dip the scraper into the water between cuts to keep the dough from sticking to it, Sprinkle flour over the dough. Make sure your hands are dry and then flour them. Lift each piece and gently round it into a ball. If the dough sticks to your hands, dip your hands into the flour again. Transfer the dough balls to the sheet pan, Mist the dough generously with spray oil and slip the pan into a food-grade plastic bag.


3. Put the pan into the refrigerator overnight to rest the dough, or keep for up to 3 days. (Note: If you want to save some of the dough for future baking, you can store the dough balls in a zippered freezer bag. Dip each dough ball into a bowl that has a few tablespoons of oil in it, rolling the dough in the oil, and then put each ball into a separate bag. You can place the bags into the freezer for up to 3 months. Transfer them to the refrigerator the day before you plan to make pizza.)


The detailed directions are here.

http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/001199.html
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31 11 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Jason I wont show you mine, you'll just get more pissed.

Besides I dident take pics. Used my wild starter too.
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