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building a trailer
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taintedplay
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 2:22 am    Post subject: building a trailer Reply with quote

ok so kam has been helping me tons, but i dont want to annoy him anymore, so ill ask here.

i want to build a 16ft long trailer, and the only part im not sure on is the axles and all of that.

on TSC i found this:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/trailers-towing/trailer-parts/other-trailer-parts/trailer-axles/axle-88-74-3500-idler-0175423

i want a 76in deck, and have two 3500lb axles. other than this, what all do i need?
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taintedplay, your not annoying me with any of your questions but I need to know what all your in need of. I am always glad to help.Smile
For your under carriage you will need.
#1 two 3500# axles ( preferably one idler axle and one axle equipped with brakes)
#2 one tandem axle spring hanger kit.
#3 two U-bolt kits
#4 four 2400# springs
Here is a link to Redneck trailer supply. I believe they are in your area. Trailer builder turned me onto them.
http://www.redneck-trailer.com/locations/15.htm
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slednecks6990
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just ordered a Tandem axel kit from ABCtrailer.com monday. It should be here next week. I thought the price was great.
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smokin_dodge
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i highly suggest a tandem setup, and at least one of them a brake axle.

have you determined what size steel you are going to build the trailer out of? i ask because 3500lbs might not be enough. most utility trailers that are around 16' long with tandem 3500lb axles are only rated to around 4500-5000lbs because of the weight of the trailer itself. if your building it with angle iron then you shouldnt have a problem, but if your going to use 3" or larger square tubing anything over 3/16" wall you might want to upgrade to a 5000lb axle.

the last pit i built was a 250 gallon tank and final weight was heavy - when we finally put it off of the hoist it sank down at least 4-5" on the suspension.

as far as the brake axle goes, i suggest it because most people tow with a suv or 1/2 ton pickup - any 3/4 ton or larger pickup will be more than adequate for stopping and pulling the trailer, but most 1/2 and suv's DO NOT have the capability of stopping a load, even if it is light, at 16' thats a lot of trailer to stop. also - in the state of texas there is a relatively new law that states any trailer over 5500lbs capacity MUST have a brake axle.

remember when installing a brake axle, to put it in the rear...i had to fix a trailer recently that had it in the front....

if you need help laying out the trailer or help with the design i would be more than willing to help. the hardest part of a trailer is normally setting the axles on the trailer. i go with a 60/40 rule, there are many different ways of determing proper placement but if its a trailer specifically for a smoker you should be good with setting the center of the tandems 60% in the rear of the trailer - though when making this calculation do not add the tongue in - just use the trailer deck itself.

also remember that you want 300-500 pounds on the tongue itself (otherwise the trailer will fishtale at high speeds) and place the majority of the weight just barely in front of the balance point so the trailer doesnt bounce all the way down the road.

your also going to want to use a bulldog "v" style 50degree hitch - dont cheap out and get a cheap hitch, there is a lot riding on it. with the tongue rails, i suggest extending them at least 5-6feet into the trailer deck, or if possible running the side of the trailer and making a knotch - dont be like these guys that have 24" of steel connecting their tongue. i pulled a 12,000lb boyscout trailer one time that had a straight tongue that only went into the deck about 3', and by the end of the trip the tongue had bent up about 10 degrees to where the breakaway box had broken off.
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TrailerBuilder
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taintedplay, 76" trailer deck is standard so finding axles for that width should be no problem. I see no problem with tandem 3500lb axles, but make sure you get at least one with brakes. The trailer brakes not only help with the stopping of everything, but it also takes some of the stress off of your towing vehicles brakes. Also, some states are now requiring a tandem trailer to have at least one of the axles with brakes. Might double check with your local DMV on the current laws. Back to the axle, what you will need is an axle with a 74" spring center and a 89.03 hub face. This is the standard axle, should be readily available. As k.a.m. mentioned, you will need a tandem hanger kit, u-bolt kits, and it is worth the money to go with the 2400lb springs over the 1750lb springs. Just a few bucks more but covers you well if you get close to weight issues.

On your other parts, there are a ton of options out there from high dollar to junk. There are some Bulldog brand copy cat parts out right now that I really like alot and actually prefer them over Bulldog and are a lot less cash than Bulldog.

Ill be happy to help you any way I can with your build, just ask away.

Hope this helps

A side note, smokin_dodge, I dont agree with your saying that 24" under the trailer is not enough. 24" is pretty much the industry standard, been tried and tested for many years, if your "other guys" comment was accurate, there would be a lot of trailers on the road today with the 10 degree bow issue. I have built trailers for years, and most "bow" issues are from people not properly loading a trailer, or over loading a trailer. Ignorance is king! 60/40 split is a very common axle placement and 9 times out of 10, it works just fine. Smoker trailers are a whole different beast because of the weight, and there is a simple way to determine the correct axle position, and that has to do with your total weight. You dont just "place the majority of the weight just barely in front of the balance point so the trailer doesnt bounce all the way down the road"

Just my 2c worth
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Last edited by TrailerBuilder on Thu Mar 24 11 11:35 am; edited 6 times in total
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smokin_dodge wrote:
i suggest extending them at least 5-6feet into the trailer deck, or if possible running the side of the trailer and making a knotch - dont be like these guys that have 24" of steel connecting their tongue. i pulled a 12,000lb boyscout trailer one time that had a straight tongue that only went into the deck about 3', and by the end of the trip the tongue had bent up about 10 degrees to where the breakaway box had broken off.

smokin_dodge, I respectfully disagree with you on your tongue placement. There is no need in the tongue reaching further into the deck than the first cross member. When the tongue is properly welded in place 2' just like the trailer I built for my build is more than adequate. If the 4" channel iron my tongue is constructed from bends it will be at the front of the trailer not past the front face of the trailer. If your remark of the guys that do this were correct then there would be many a factory built trailers on the road with bent tongues. Stretching a tongue 5' to 6' into a deck is a waste of material and serves no purpose in my opinion. These are just my thoughts. Wink
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brentski
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with KAM. I have seen several trailers with the extended tongues bent due to improper welds, cheap steel or just plain overloading. The shorter and lighter tongue works well with a well built trailer decreasing weight and allowing the trailer some flex. To me nothing is better than a Bulldog hitch, especially with some usage, they just keep working and do not pinch the fingers or hands. Just my two cents worth.
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Wreckless
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24 11 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all in the design. A house of cards supports way more than it weighs.
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taintedplay
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so on acbtrailerparts there is a kit with this:
Tandem trailer axle kits rated at 7,000 lb. Load capacity include:

1 - Trailer axle with electric brakes rated at 3,500 Lb. with hub drums, high speed bearings, races, grease caps, 10" electric brake backing plate assemblies, four-leaf double eye springs, u-bolt kit and lug nuts.

1 - Trailer axle rated at 3,500 Lb. with hubs, high-speed bearings, races, grease caps, u-bolt kit, four leaf double eye springs and lug nuts.

1 - Tandem hanger kit with six hangers, two equalizer bars, fourteen shackle bolts with nylon lock nuts and eight shackle links.

Cost $403.98
http://abctrailerparts.com/3.5ktandemEBIDkit.html

i guess this: 89" hub face and 74" spring perch center mounts for a 76" wide trailer frame.

then as options i can get
Add $80.00 to one of the tandem axle kits when using drop axles.
Ultra lube spindles are available for $10.00 extra charge per axle.
Tandem teardrop fenders 9"x72" with weld on backs $98.99. (Per Pair)

does this look good? and are the drop axles and ultra lube spindles worth it?
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taintedplay, that price sounds fare to me. The price of the components you listed are about $13.00 more than my price , I do not know if your springs are 2400lb though and that could be the price difference. The fenders are in line with what I paid. The super lubes are worth that price. I do not think you need drop axles.
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taintedplay
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get 24ft 2x2x11ga steel for 46$ so I was thinking of making my frame of that. But I can do whatever. Any suggestions? And how far spaced apart crossmembers?
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taintedplay, I would go heavier on my wall thickness and if your going to use tubing I would go to 2" x 4" rectangle and run it on edge. I would go no more than 24" spacing on my cross members.
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taintedplay
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think 2x4 (4 being vertical) is better than L angle? If so what thickness
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taintedplay, I do not think the rectangle tubing is any better than the angle iron. If I were building a 16' trailer using angle iron as my frame it would be 3" x 3" x 1/4 thick. I would still use 4" channel iron for my wrap around tongue.
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taintedplay
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 inch channel? Like u channel?
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes like u channel.
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cody
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wish i knew you were building one i could have save you some money as i had one for sale
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TrailerBuilder
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

taintedplay, that really isnt too bad a deal on trailer parts. I would not worry about the dropped axles. Not really worth the money and if your doing a walk on cooker, you can always add a step alot cheaper. Go with the EZ lube hubs, makes bearing maintenance simple and a lot less worry free. The 4 leaf springs should be the 2400lb springs. The 2400lb springs I buy are 4 leaf and the 1750lb springs are 3 leaf. Good choice on the 4 leaf.

I would not run 2x2 tubing no matter the thickness, just not enough material there in my opinion. I use 2x4 11ga rectangle tube on all of my 7000GVW trailers or less. Anything over that I go to a 2x6 3/16th. I cant say that I 100% agree with k.a.m. (sorry buddy Shocked ) that tubing is not better than angle iron, but it really is a personal preferance. I will say if your not used to working with any of the material, tubing is easier to work with because you just make your cuts and butt up the joints and weld away. With angle iron and C channel, you have to "cope" out ends and make your fits that way. Just my thoughts and each to their own. Go no more than 24" centers on your cross members and make sure you get your trailer frame good and square.
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrailerBuilder wrote:
I cant say that I 100% agree with k.a.m. (sorry buddy Shocked ) that tubing is not better than angle iron, but it really is a personal preferance.

Oh that's okay I know how you square tubing guys think. Razz Laughing I am glad you jumped in here cause I am not really into tubing for trailers. Wink I would be asking you anyway. Very Happy
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icecoldkicks
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26 11 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taintedplay, im book marking this link because im very interested in seeing u get under way with this project, i too am thinking bout building somthing very simular to what ur doing! Please add some pics when u finally get it under way! Thanks & Good Luck Cool
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