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Vulcanus
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Italy
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 Posted: Feb 06 2011 Post subject: Build a direct cooking unit; several doubts!!! |
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Hello everyone from Italy
I'd like to build two separate units, because I don't like the only one solution.
The first unit is one that can be only used for a direct cooking; the second one is a vertical smoker that can be only used for a indirect cooking.
I often grill many little pieces of meat for 15 or 25 friends (I cook about 20 beef steak, 20 sausages, 20 slices of bread, or 4-5 pork ribs, 15 chicken legs, 6-8 spatchcock chicken, etc) rarely a rotisserie spit.
In this thread i would like to speak on the first unit.
I want to make a unit that can be only used for direct cooking.
The cooking griddle is covered by three sides (like the photo) but it is opened on the top and on the front. It hasn't a top lid.
The unit has a adjustable height cooking griddle and, in the future, I add a rotisserie engine.
This rotisserie spit is suitable for cooking chicken, rolled meats and vegetables in a rotating baskets.
My hypotetical unit is large approximately 2x4 feet (max 2x5 feet)
I have many doubts!!!!
I want to know if the open pit solution is good or this solution could make problems and difficulties like:
keeping the temperature (charcoal burn down to embers soon)
keeping the meat away from burning.
the meat goes down quickly to dry than a kettle.
etc etc
What is the best solution of grilling?
Between the many open pit solutions I have selected these:
Adjustable charcoal grill
Adjustable wood grill
I like these Santa Maria Style Grill
I want to know how is their cooking quality and how they really are
I want to know the differences between wood and coal for the cooking quality, the taste and so on.
Which is the cooking difference between wood and the charcoal produced by it and charcoal where I add a wood chunks only to add flavour?
Thanks to all. |
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SoEzzy
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 13183
Location: SLC, UT
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| Posted: Feb 06 2011 Post subject: Re: Build a direct cooking unit; several doubts!!! |
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| Vulcanus wrote: |
I have many doubts!!!!
I want to know if the open pit solution is good or this solution could make problems and difficulties like:
keeping the temperature (charcoal burn down to embers soon) |
Do you have a good supply of charcoal or a good supply of wood?
If charcoal is cheap and of good quality, you can put several layer of burning charcoal together and the heat really gets high, to do the same with wood will take a lot more space for air flow and a lot more wood.
| Quote: | keeping the meat away from burning.
the meat goes down quickly to dry than a kettle.
etc etc
What is the best solution of grilling? |
If I was building it I'd put a lid on too, that way you can raise the grate higher and still use it for smoking, by putting the fire at one end and the meat at the other end.
You can build a fire with 3 or more zones, one end no charcoal at the bottom, 10 -12", this is your cool zone.
Next zone has one layer of charcoal, this is your warm zone.
The next zone has two or three layers of charcoal, this is your hot zone.
The more layers of charcoal the longer the charcoal burns and the more heat you get above it.
| Quote: | Adjustable wood grill
I like these Santa Maria Style Grill
I want to know how is their cooking quality and how they really are
I want to know the differences between wood and coal for the cooking quality, the taste and so on. |
The quality of the food produced by a good cook with a Santa Maria is as good as anything.
You have to learn to control the fire, the height the grate is above that fire, and the amount of care you need to pay to the cooking, so that the meat keeps turning not burning, you can also build a 3 zone fire under the grate and so, the technique is a useful one in many ways.
| Quote: | Which is the cooking difference between wood and the charcoal produced by it and charcoal where I add a wood chunks only to add flavour?
Thanks to all. |
You need to take more time (In My Opinion, IMO) to learn about how your wood burns, how long it takes to go from smoking to a clean fire and to burn down to usable coals for cooking, you also need to learn how to judge what extra fuel the fire needs and when you need to add it.
Using charcoal is a better way to go IMO, you will be able to get a better heat zone set up, and therefore learn to cook on it better.
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12TH AV SMOKERS
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Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 648
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Feb 06 2011 Post subject: |
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I'm no computer expert but I'm pretty sure his picture links are loaded with Trojan virus'. My software shutme down real quick when I click on one of those pics.
Other than than I liked using a Santa Marie style cooker. Used one at a get together that used to happen years ago at a park near here.
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Smokin Mike
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 3167
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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| Posted: Feb 06 2011 Post subject: |
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| 12TH AV SMOKERS wrote: | | I'm no computer expert but I'm pretty sure his picture links are loaded with Trojan virus'. |
It's that ImageShack BS. Somebody else here had posted some photos with them and you get pop ups and all kinds of other nonsense. |
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erniesshop
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 2104
Location: Grants New Mexico
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| Posted: Feb 06 2011 Post subject: |
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| 12TH AV SMOKERS wrote: | I'm no computer expert but I'm pretty sure his picture links are loaded with Trojan virus'. My software shutme down real quick when I click on one of those pics.
Other than than I liked using a Santa Marie style cooker. Used one at a get together that used to happen years ago at a park near here. |
+1
And NOW My Computer is Tatally f--k ! |
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daddywoofdawg
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Starkweather,ND
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| Posted: Feb 06 2011 Post subject: |
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why not a smoker grill combo?the grill has a lid and the the end is a upright smoker chamber.to use just the grill close the vent to the smoker and use as a grill if you want to use the smoker open the vent use the grill area with lid closed as a firebox.
When cooking with wood you need to burn it down to coals to cook you don't cook with the flames roaring.
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Custom Made offset smoker
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Vulcanus
Newbie
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Feb 09 2011 Post subject: |
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Hello everyone
| SoEzzy wrote: |
Do you have a good supply of charcoal or a good supply of wood?
If charcoal is cheap and of good quality, you can put several layer of burning charcoal together and the heat really gets high, to do the same with wood will take a lot more space for air flow and a lot more wood.
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I have a good supply of wood; dry wood is cheap and of good quality (oak, beech, apple), while charcoal is expansive and of bad quality.
To solve this problem, I thought to build a brazier. In this case I will product a hardwood lump charcoal.
| SoEzzy wrote: |
If I was building it I'd put a lid on too, that way you can raise the grate higher and still use it for smoking, by putting the fire at one end and the meat at the other end.
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Can you explain me better this? I don't understand well, I'm sorry!!
| SoEzzy wrote: |
The quality of the food produced by a good cook with a Santa Maria is as good as anything.
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I like to read this!
| SoEzzy wrote: |
You have to learn to control the fire, the height the grate is above that fire, and the amount of care you need to pay to the cooking, so that the meat keeps turning not burning, you can also build a 3 zone fire under the grate and so, the technique is a useful one in many ways.
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If i cook only with a wood in a open pit grill is there a real risk of oversmoked meat?
"Nothing will ruin a meal faster and waste money better than oversmoked meat."
| SoEzzy wrote: |
You need to take more time (In My Opinion, IMO) to learn about how your wood burns, how long it takes to go from smoking to a clean fire and to burn down to usable coals for cooking, you also need to learn how to judge what extra fuel the fire needs and when you need to add it.
Using charcoal is a better way to go IMO, you will be able to get a better heat zone set up, and therefore learn to cook on it better. |
One thing is for sure; I need to learn much more.
Can I only use in a a first time with a Santa Maria Style Grill, charcoal to cook and then, in a second time, when I learn about how the wood burns etc etc use only wood?
I'm afraid about oversmoked meat.
To everyone:
Are there any problems with Imageshack?
I'm sorry but i don't understand if there are a problems.
| daddywoofdawg wrote: | why not a smoker grill combo?the grill has a lid and the the end is a upright smoker chamber.to use just the grill close the vent to the smoker and use as a grill if you want to use the smoker open the vent use the grill area with lid closed as a firebox.
When cooking with wood you need to burn it down to coals to cook you don't cook with the flames roaring. |
Do you prefer the all in one solution?
What do you mean "the vent" Do you referring to a top lid?
Thanks to all |
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totally smokin
Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Feb 09 2011 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Nothing will ruin a meal faster and waste money better than oversmoked meat." |
last time i smoked a butt -- went for 14 hours, at what point does it become "oversmoked"? |
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ggarner
BBQ Fan
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 322
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Feb 09 2011 Post subject: |
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You do not need to worry about oversmoking your meat on a santa maria style cooker. When I use mine I use oak and it imparts a nice flavor to whatever is cooked on it. Oak is a wood that is know to impart more smoke flavor than other woods other than mesquite, so i think you will be fine. I have done chicken, shrimp, beef, pork chops, vegetables, they all turn out well once you learn how to use the grill.
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Vulcanus
Newbie
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Feb 12 2011 Post subject: |
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Hello everyone
| totally smokin wrote: |
last time i smoked a butt -- went for 14 hours, at what point does it become "oversmoked"? |
I'm Italian and I dont have the BBQ culture.
Ther is a misunderstanding ,I'm sorry
When I said "oversmoked" I will mean the bad smoke, the white bitter smoke, the creosote.
bad smoke equal to white smoke, bitter taste and creosote
good smoke equal to thin blue smoke, good taste
The problem is not related to the hours but is related to the quality
I'm a newbie and i haven't yet understud well how i make a good smoke! (I'm learning slowly)
I'd like to build a unit that can be only used for a direct cooking; either high temperatures and short period of time (like t-bone steak) either longer period of time using low temperature(like entire chicken)
Your advice for the first unit is to build a unit with a top lid and a adjustable height grill.
Like these?
Cajun Grill
Peoria 24x48 Grill
Pitmaker Grill
| ggarner wrote: | | You do not need to worry about oversmoking your meat on a santa maria style cooker. When I use mine I use oak and it imparts a nice flavor to whatever is cooked on it. Oak is a wood that is know to impart more smoke flavor than other woods other than mesquite, so i think you will be fine. I have done chicken, shrimp, beef, pork chops, vegetables, they all turn out well once you learn how to use the grill. |
I want to know if the open pit solution is good or this solution could make problems and difficulties like:
keeping the temperature (charcoal burn down to embers soon)
keeping the meat away from burning.
the meat goes down quickly to dry than a kettle.
etc etc
The top lid is obliged or we can do without?
Is it better?
Thanks to all |
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daddywoofdawg
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Starkweather,ND
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| Posted: Feb 14 2011 Post subject: |
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This is what I'm talking about.Just change it to wood and place a slider vent from the grill area to the upright smoker and put a lid over the grill area.or just make it as is.the wood goes under the smoker in that case.
_________________
Good BBQ is all smoke and beers!
The Dawghouse Custom vertical Gasser
Custom Made offset smoker
Char grill smoker
Weber kettle |
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ggarner
BBQ Fan
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 322
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Feb 14 2011 Post subject: |
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| Vulcanus wrote: |
I want to know if the open pit solution is good or this solution could make problems and difficulties like:
keeping the temperature (charcoal burn down to embers soon)
keeping the meat away from burning.
the meat goes down quickly to dry than a kettle.
etc etc
The top lid is obliged or we can do without?
Is it better?
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In my experience the open top santa maria cooker is a good option for what you are wanting to do.
As for keeping the temperature. Basically depending on how big of a cook i am doing, I will start a fire with 4-5 logs and let it burn down till the flames have gotten pretty small (4-5" tall) If I will be cooking quite a bit of food at this point I will push 60% of the coals off to one side and spread them out. I will take the remaining 40% an keep them on the other side and throw on a couple more logs. At this point you can start cooking over the 60% and the other 40% is basically additional coals and as the wood in that area burns down you can crank up the grill and spread out more coals/add more wood as needed
Keeping the meat away from burning is easy, if it gets too hot you just raise the level of the grill for a while and once it has cooled down a bit you can lower the grill again.
Once you get used to cooking on one of these you will not have issues with having your meat dry out because by selecting the grill height you can basically cook over whatever temperature you desire. If you want to do a hot sear first lower the rack down to where the temp is around 400 and seat the meat. Then to finish it off you can raise the grate until the meat it at the desired done-ness.
You dont need a top/lid, but depending on what you cook a lot of you may want one. If you do a lot of steaks and sausage and chicken I dont think the lid is necessary. However if you do a lot of ribs you may want a lid. You just have to remember that almost all your heat will be direct heat, so you will only be cooking 1 side of the meat at a time. This makes doing things like ribs a little more of a challenge. When I did ribs on my santa maria cooker I think we cooked them for about 45min to 1 hour. 80% of the cooking was done with bone side down and the remainder of the time was done with the meat side down. Same with bone in chicken breasts. With an open top cooker you will be doing a lot more flipping so that you can heat all the sides of the item being cooked.
Hope that helps.
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SoEzzy
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 13183
Location: SLC, UT
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| Posted: Feb 14 2011 Post subject: |
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My idea for having a lid works like this.
If you do have a lid, it allows you to cook with indirect heat and smoke, or directly with heat and smoke as a grill, if you start with no lid, you can't try the low and slow that you can do with a lid on.
To get good smoke, burn a small but hot fire and feed it the fuel and air to keep it small and hot, if you have a large smoldering fire that will give you the bad smoke.
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I still work here! |
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Vulcanus
Newbie
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Feb 18 2011 Post subject: |
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Hello everyone
I'm often away for work, there isn't any internet connection around here.
I'm sorry for the delay 
| daddywoofdawg wrote: | | This is what I'm talking about.Just change it to wood and place a slider vent from the grill area to the upright smoker and put a lid over the grill area.or just make it as is.the wood goes under the smoker in that case. |
I'd like to build two separate units because I can move one of this easily, charge on a trailer and move in a park or a camp for a beautiful day with lot of friends.
I can choose the grill or the smoker ,depending on what I cook.
If I cook steaks, sausages and spatchcock chicken I'll choose the grill.
If I cook a lot of ribs, large piece of meat etc I'll choose the vertical smoker.
Your advice is: the top lid is not necessary but If I build a unit with the top lid is preferable.
Had i understood right?
If I build two different units, a vertical smoker and a grill, the top lid (on the grill) is not necessary because,for the "low and slow", I use the smoker
The grill is similar to this photo
mounted on a "tub" or "charcoal box" like this
Is it a bad idea?
| ggarner wrote: |
Hope that helps. |
Your explanation was very helpful for me
Thank you so much.
| ggarner wrote: |
If I will be cooking quite a bit of food at this point I will push 60% of the coals off to one side and spread them out. I will take the remaining 40% an keep them on the other side and throw on a couple more logs. At this point you can start cooking over the 60% and the other 40% is basically additional coals and as the wood in that area burns down you can crank up the grill and spread out more coals/add more wood as needed. |
One thing is not clear, I'm sorry
The problem is "in the side when you put the 40% of charcoal plus new dry wood".
This side is usable either to make new hot charcoal and either to cook, or is usable only to make a charcoal?
If is only used to make coal I make a portable fire pit (like in the photo) to make hot wood and a hot coal (in this case I could use the entire grill surface to cook).
If is used both to cook and make hot charcoal, there is no problem.
Is it right?
Didn't I understand something?
| SoEzzy wrote: | My idea for having a lid works like this.
If you do have a lid, it allows you to cook with indirect heat and smoke, or directly with heat and smoke as a grill, if you start with no lid, you can't try the low and slow that you can do with a lid on.
To get good smoke, burn a small but hot fire and feed it the fuel and air to keep it small and hot, if you have a large smoldering fire that will give you the bad smoke. |
If I built a Santa Maria style Grill I will start a fire with few logs.
When the wood has burnt down to ember I have a hot coal, few ashes, and a little burning wood with pretty small flame (that make a good smoke).
Is it right?
In addition to this i should built a vertical smoker like these:
With these units I can cook everything that I think. Is it right?
Thanks to all. |
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ggarner
BBQ Fan
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 322
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Feb 20 2011 Post subject: |
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| Vulcanus wrote: | One thing is not clear, I'm sorry
The problem is "in the side when you put the 40% of charcoal plus new dry wood".
This side is usable either to make new hot charcoal and either to cook, or is usable only to make a charcoal?
If is only used to make coal I make a portable fire pit (like in the photo) to make hot wood and a hot coal (in this case I could use the entire grill surface to cook).
If is used both to cook and make hot charcoal, there is no problem.
Is it right?
Didn't I understand something? |
Glad that helped cleat most things up. Ok if you plan of making 2 cookers, 1 for direct heat cooking and 1 for smoking you should not need a lit on the Santa Maria style cooker.
With regard to your concern above:
You can add a bunch of wood and let it burn down till the fire dies down to only a few inches and you start to get coals. Then you can spread out all the wood/coals over the bottom of the cooker and let it sit for about 5-10 min. If it looks like it will be enough coals to get a long enough cook time for whatever you are planning on cooking that day you are ready to start cooking. If it looks like you may need a little more you can throw 1 log on top of the coals on each of the far sides of the cooker. At this point you can start cooking in the middle 80% of the cooker just keeping the food away from the flames of the newly added logs. As they burn down you can then utilize 100% of the cooking surface.
Normally you wont need to add additional wood. But on occasion I have found that the coals either burned down quicker than I anticipated or I just didnt have enough to start with, and this is why the additional wood may need to be added. Once you get used to the cooker you will have a better idea of how much wood you need to add at the start for the amount of meat you want to cook.
You should not need an additional area to make make charcoal, you can do it all in the cooker. If things get too hot with the addition of more wood you just raise the cooking grates and continue to cook.
It is my understanding that when cooking with an open top grill you do not really need to be too concerned with thin blue smoke, because you should not have a smoldering fire like in the firebox of the cooker. Since the wood you add basically has access to all the air that it needs to burn. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.
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Vulcanus
Newbie
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Feb 22 2011 Post subject: |
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Thanks ggarner your advices are very clear
I read your link (Santa Maria BBQ; Insulated RF Vertical Smoker) congratulation, are beautiful.
My units are very similar to yours, a Santa Maria Stile Cooker and a vertical insulated smoker.
we think in the same way 
My unit should be a 3'x2' or 5'x3' the deep is 16"
I'm a little O.T. but I thought that:
If I add a simple charcoal tray plus a grid and I make on it a fire (Like the photos)
with the advantage to lift the charcoal tray with the cog
I trasform my Santa Maria in a Roast box like "Cajun Microwave", "Caja China" etc etc.
In this way I can use this unit for two different systems.
Is it right?
Didn't I understand something?
Thanks to all. |
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daddywoofdawg
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Starkweather,ND
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| Posted: Feb 22 2011 Post subject: |
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I wish I had'nt bought the la ca china.The first time I used it the charcoal tray warped big time.Have to make a new tray,i called them about it and they sent me a couple of emails and that was the end of it nothing ever happened about replacement.
_________________
Good BBQ is all smoke and beers!
The Dawghouse Custom vertical Gasser
Custom Made offset smoker
Char grill smoker
Weber kettle |
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Vulcanus
Newbie
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Feb 22 2011 Post subject: |
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| daddywoofdawg wrote: | | I wish I had'nt bought the la ca china.The first time I used it the charcoal tray warped big time.Have to make a new tray,i called them about it and they sent me a couple of emails and that was the end of it nothing ever happened about replacement. |
I haven't bought any Caja China or similar. My idea is build my own Santa Maria Style Cooker.
I watched on YouTube many videos on caja china and in one of this you can look how easily the charcoal tray warped (if I find the video I copy the link).
I want only to cope the idea!!
In the future I build also a charcoal tray to trasform My own Santa Maria Cooker in a Cajun Microwave or Caja China or similar.
In this way I can use this cooker for two different systems.
What do you think?
Thanks to all |
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daddywoofdawg
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Starkweather,ND
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| Posted: Feb 23 2011 Post subject: |
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could be done if the box is deep enough,otherwise it will get to hot and burn what's under it.
The design of the la caja is great just the quality is bad.
_________________
Good BBQ is all smoke and beers!
The Dawghouse Custom vertical Gasser
Custom Made offset smoker
Char grill smoker
Weber kettle |
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Vulcanus
Newbie
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Feb 23 2011 Post subject: |
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| daddywoofdawg wrote: | could be done if the box is deep enough,otherwise it will get to hot and burn what's under it.
The design of the la caja is great just the quality is bad. |
The Caja China maximum deep is 12 3/4"
The Cajun Microwave deep is 14"
The Roast Box deep is 15"
My Santa Maria is 16"
Some Home Build Caja China Clone is deep 24"!!!!
What do you think? |
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