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YardFullOfOak
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08 12 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAllen wrote:

Have car seats saved lives? Of course, but at what cost?


JAllen, I don't understand what you mean here.

I cannot see any downside whatsoever from sitting in a child seat or wearing a seat belt...
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JAllen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10 12 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YardFullOfOak wrote:
JAllen wrote:

Have car seats saved lives? Of course, but at what cost?


JAllen, I don't understand what you mean here.

I cannot see any downside whatsoever from sitting in a child seat or wearing a seat belt...


YardFullOfOak, I completely understand your point of view.

However, it seems we have laws designed to protect us from ourselves, instead of us being responsible for doing this.

At what cost? Some might say the cost is to our freedom.

Some people still belive that People should be responsible for themselves, and parents should be responsible for the safety of their children; not any government.

I'm not so much concerned about these particular laws, but about the precedent that has been set, whereby the government is protecting us from ourselves.

It's like the government doesn't trust us to take care of ourselves or our families.

Where could this lead?

Well, right now we're at "nobody should drive without a seatbelt, and no children should be out of safety seats."

(btw, how much money was spent by safety seat manufacturers and lobbyists to get this law passed?)

Where could we go next?

1. Nobody has any business being in a bbq restaurant after 1am as they should be going to work tomorrow.

"Last Call for BBQ." emoticon

2. Shouldn't parents with children under x years old be forbidden from having dangerous things, guns, knives, etc. in their homes? Children are very good at finding and using these things. Shouldn't there be a law?

3. Back to the restaurant health issues, (since this is a restaurant thread)

Are we really any better off now than we were fifty years ago? Instead of restaurant owners being responsible at the peril of their establishment, they're taking sanitary classes mandated by the government.

Shouldn't they be seeking this info and using it themselves?

It seems to me this would be self-regulating. If I get a bellyache after eating somewhere I don't go there again and tell everyone I know. Soon that establishment dies and gets what it deserves.

(Even with all these health laws, they haven't stopped so many bugs)


Overall it's a slippery slope with no end.

It's not right now that is really concerning, because there is something to be said about car seats and seatbelts and sanitary laws, and a lot of other things.

But where does this end up?

It ends up with us having to close our bbq restaurants at 1am. emoticon.
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daddywoofdawg
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10 12 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanitary laws are needed.Yes you may get a belly ache from eating somewhere,but you may just kill you or your child too!look back at some of your early meat market photos,raw meat just hanging out,not refrigerated,rusty pipes all over.You need those laws to make lazy,I don't care,I didn't know type people, to try to do it right.I'm not saying that it will stop food borne illness,but I believe it helps.Yes I also think there are extremes, like the video someone on here posted about a get together, and the health dept made them destroy all the food.
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JAllen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10 12 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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JAllen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10 12 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daddywoofdawg wrote:
look back at some of your early meat market photos


That was exactly my point.

So, would you eat at Mel's Diner?

1970s health laws.

Mel not wearing a cap or gloves.

Heaven forbid.

I think all parents should be required to wear caps and gloves when preparing food at home. Especially if they have children.

This should be monitored and fines doled out for any home infractions.

What's the difference between cooking for one's self, one's children or for the general public?

You are aware I'm using specific instances to shed light on a general issue.

I should also make the point that our kitchen is dressed for surgery right now.

As for actions, I just tossed a quart of collected au jus that was left out and berated our new Dasha cook at high volume as she's already been through my personal training.

Restaurants can go through all the required training they want, but if the people working there aren't doing the things they need to do to protect the restaurant and the public, it's totally useless.
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Geronimo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10 12 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jallen, where did you learn MOST of the things you know now about food safety??? Did you learn it in the country you are currently operating, another country that has stricter food safety codes or were you simply born with the knowledge (think trial & error here).

I totally agree that MOST safe food handling/cooking is common sense but I have learned alot by taking the government mandated safe food handling classes every 4-5 years. If i don't learn something new, it at least refreshes why I have learned in the past both in class and in home.

On the car seat issue, maybe it ought to be like Texas helmet laws...your choice to wear one or not. Sure a LOT of riders getting killed/injured by choosing the latter.
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ckone
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10 12 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:


On the car seat issue, maybe it ought to be like Texas helmet laws...your choice to wear one or not. Sure a LOT of riders getting killed/injured by choosing the latter.


You are required to have medical insurance to not wear a helmet, but the only way they know if you don't is by pulling you over for something else.

Kind of like other requirements that they can only find out about by pulling you over for something else. (license, open container, liability insurance, etc.) As long as you don't speed, run stop lights, or swerve all over the road, they would never know you were driving around uninsured without a license while drinking a beer.
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Geronimo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10 12 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ckone wrote:
Geronimo wrote:


On the car seat issue, maybe it ought to be like Texas helmet laws...your choice to wear one or not. Sure a LOT of riders getting killed/injured by choosing the latter.


You are required to have insurance to not wear a helmet, but the only way they know if you don't is by pulling you over for something else.


Like telling the bike rider that his left taillight is out huh?? Laughing
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dogroach
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAllen, I agree it's like everyone wants the government to think for them and if it isn't regulated or a law they don't know what to do. Everything has to be guaranteed, life has to be safe, we need more laws to protect us from ourselves and they need to make it mandatory that all restaurants close at 9 and all bars at 10 plus we must be off the streets by 11 and in bed by 12. OK so that's not going to happen anytime soon but.....! No inspections here, no health dept., no building or any other one that we have seen so far, just buy your licenses and get on with business. Sink or swim it's up to us.
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thsmoker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same sense JAllen has. Bought a new bike for my son -- the 20 something salesman suggested I buy a light for daytime riding -- so that my son would have better visibility -- I asked him if he was serious -- his demeanor suggested he was and not just trying to selling me something else.

I wonder about the level of food safety. Could it be reducing our immunity to bad stuff over the long run. Kind of like the anti-bacterial soap discussion that has been going on?

They say less than 25% of child seats are installed and used correctly. Does improper use make them more dangerous? And how about the differences in the law from one state to another?

My son goes racing around on his bike through the neighborhood with a floppy helmet. Is he really safer? He never seems to land on his head, so I cant say yet.

How about using the peoples wealth to insure banks that made really bad investing decisions? Or companies that make bad product decisions. Shouldn't there be some risk to making bad decisions and shouldn't we be able to make them?
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JAllen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
jallen, where did you learn MOST of the things you know now about food safety???


Great question Geronimo.

Our second cook, Faida, had worked at the military base and she made a lot of changes in March of last year.

I actually got a lot of help from the link you sent me about a year ago. If I remember correctly, your wife was involved with military/food safety issues as an inspector I believe.

Before we opened, I had a friend who had a bbq restaurant in CA. He told me about food safety classes he had to take and I asked him for some information.

We keep a lot of bleach around the kitchen, are very careful with chicken and serve very fresh food. I personally check everything, sauces etc. for freshness daily, and everything we cook is time/date stamped on foil or cello.

Anything we send out comes with a personal health warning from me about time to consume and any refrigeration/reheating instructions. I get a lot of strange looks from customers regarding my hyper-sensitivity.

On the date stamping and my hyper-sensitivity, I always tell take out customers if anything is not very good in any way to call. They've called for various reasons, but last week we had a major problem that led to the firing of our recent cook, Nanny Emma.

Customer gets home with a bunch of bbq.

Customer calls me asking what does the number 23 on the ribs mean?

Well, we were at the end of March, and that dingbat had sent out ribs that were long-sinse destined for Chief and Rex.

We had a 2-foot pile of ribs that had just exited the smoker cooling their heels. We also have a policy of serving the most-recently exited bbq first.

We also write off a ton of meat monthly and this is planned into our p/l.

I could not for the life of me understand why this dingbat would do such a thing, but she's out.

I believe that most restaurants in the States probably do an okay job of following sanitary standards.

I also believe a lot of places make a lot of mistakes.

I've been told by cooks who have worked at our place and other high-end places here that our standards are crazy high compared to the other places they've worked.
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JAllen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We the onset of warm weather over the past week or so, we've seen our business come to a crashing halt.
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RodinBangkok
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thsmoker wrote:

I wonder about the level of food safety. Could it be reducing our immunity to bad stuff over the long run.

This caught my eye so I thought I'd chime in.
First about the above quote, it is very true IMHO, there something called the hygiene hypothesis, I'm a firm believer in it and it makes a whole lot of sense.

http://www.hygienehypothesis.com/

I grew up mucking out barns chicken coops, slipping and falling in a spring thaw cattle yard and totally covered in you know what more than once. I can also remember as a kid I heard my mom on the party line phone say, you mean Tommy has the measles, well I'm sending Rod over today, wanting to make sure that I got all the child hood diseases at a young age. I think its pretty clear that there is balance that nature has set up that is being skewed by all this hype about cleanliness, and its catching up with the US population. You all eat way too much processed food, your next generation is the first to have a shorter life span than your own, which I think is inexcusable, and your not teaching your kids about food. My daughter handed me a thumb drive last month and said dad you gotta watch this you won't believe it. It was the first two seasons of a show called Jamie Olivers food revolution...I just shook my head could not believe how far down hill the US has gone with respect to nutrition and educating your kids about it.
Fresh markets are a way of life in Asia, they have been for centuries, and will be in the future also. Most cultures in Asia are fanatics about fresh, that's why the food is out in the open, so it can be smelled, touched and looked over before purchase. If you go to a hypermarket here they even have their fresh meats on ice out in the open for people to choose, why, the people want to know how fresh it is and what it looks like, they know their food. People are also educated about food stalls, jeez I bet 90% of bangkok eats from food stalls at least once a day. You can watch your food being made, you see behind the scenes, you know where that piece of chicken came from that was just stir fried, and foremost you know the history of the stall where your eating.
Do they have 3 sinks in the stall, or is the dish wash water hot, or is the cutting board wood not plastic, or has that cooked chicken been hanging out too long, nobody really cares, as the person cooking the food has been doing it for a long time, the stalls may have been there for 20-30 years, so it does not matter. I'll choose an established food stall that could never meet any of the US standards for safety any day over a place I'd never eaten before in the states where I don't know whats going on behind that kitchen door.
Both my kids have grown up food savy, and my grandson will be the same. They have eaten with us and been educated by us and their friends about food, what to look for where to eat, etc.
I'll take a fresh market over cryo packed frozen anything any day of the week without giving it a second thought....no pink slime, or pumped enhanced meats, at the fresh markets.
Nothing personal to anyone here, but you guys in the states are on a road to ruin with regards to nutrition and basic food education, take a hard look in your own backyard before you criticize others.
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RodinBangkok
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thsmoker wrote:

I wonder about the level of food safety. Could it be reducing our immunity to bad stuff over the long run.

This caught my eye so I thought I'd chime in.
First about the above quote, it is very true IMHO, there something called the hygiene hypothesis, I'm a firm believer in it and it makes a whole lot of sense.

http://www.hygienehypothesis.com/

I grew up mucking out barns chicken coops, slipping and falling in a spring thaw cattle yard and totally covered in you know what more than once. I can also remember as a kid I heard my mom on the party line phone say, you mean Tommy has the measles, well I'm sending Rod over today, wanting to make sure that I got all the child hood diseases at a young age. I think its pretty clear that there is balance that nature has set up that is being skewed by all this hype about cleanliness, and its catching up with the US population. You all eat way too much processed food, your next generation is the first to have a shorter life span than your own, which I think is inexcusable, and your not teaching your kids about food. My daughter handed me a thumb drive last month and said dad you gotta watch this you won't believe it. It was the first two seasons of a show called Jamie Olivers food revolution...I just shook my head could not believe how far down hill the US has gone with respect to nutrition and educating your kids about it.
Fresh markets are a way of life in Asia, they have been for centuries, and will be in the future also. Most cultures in Asia are fanatics about fresh, that's why the food is out in the open, so it can be smelled, touched and looked over before purchase. If you go to a hypermarket here they even have their fresh meats on ice out in the open for people to choose, why, the people want to know how fresh it is and what it looks like, they know their food. People are also educated about food stalls, jeez I bet 90% of bangkok eats from food stalls at least once a day. You can watch your food being made, you see behind the scenes, you know where that piece of chicken came from that was just stir fried, and foremost you know the history of the stall where your eating.
Do they have 3 sinks in the stall, or is the dish wash water hot, or is the cutting board wood not plastic, or has that cooked chicken been hanging out too long, nobody really cares, as the person cooking the food has been doing it for a long time, the stalls may have been there for 20-30 years, so it does not matter. I'll choose an established food stall that could never meet any of the US standards for safety any day over a place I'd never eaten before in the states where I don't know whats going on behind that kitchen door.
Both my kids have grown up food savy, and my grandson will be the same. They have eaten with us and been educated by us and their friends about food, what to look for where to eat, etc.
I'll take a fresh market over cryo packed frozen anything any day of the week without giving it a second thought....no pink slime, or pumped enhanced meats, at the fresh markets.
Nothing personal to anyone here, but you guys in the states are on a road to ruin with regards to nutrition and basic food education, take a hard look in your own backyard before you criticize others.
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JAllen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rodinbangkok, that was interesting.
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Geronimo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post ROD!!!

I have never been overseas so I have a LOT to learn about other countries cultures. Thank goodness for The Travel Chanel and those who partake to educate people like me.
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camdentom
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11 12 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well stated Rod. My wife and I spend several months a year in the DomInican Republic and a lot of what you said applies there. We watched one guy start a restaurant using a 55 gallon drum for a grill and he pulled his dining room table out in the yard. Probably didn't spend $50 total. 6 years later, he's built a very successful little bar and restaurant off the front of his house. The whole family works there. You couldn't do that in the US with all the rules and regs. We eat there frequently, never had a problem.
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JAllen
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 12 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolute crash in business as the Spring/Summer season starts.

I think we need to get our patio up and running.
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Geronimo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12 12 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAllen wrote:
Absolute crash in business as the Spring/Summer season starts.

I think we need to get our patio up and running.


Maybe start that "drive thru" you've always wanted (in your first restaurant)......or "curb side" service
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JAllen
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13 12 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worked all day today to build a bar outside and pulled all the soft furniture from the J-Lo room outside, as well as the couches that used to serve as table three inside.

Awesome in the making.

We even got some customers in tonight.

I'm really liking the look of the patio and will post pictures of work in progress tomorrow.
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