Have noticed a lot of 1st time competitors.

mrcustomsteel · Posted: Oct 02 2006 Post subject:

I guess it's a mixed blessing that there are so many comps to choose from in the TX area. It's nice to have so many to choose from but it might also be nice to consolidate some of them. I could see competitors being torn over which to attend on a particular weekend.

Heck, there is a fight now over where to have the RI state championship. Various organizations refuse to pool their efforts into one fantastic venue. There is only room for one comp per year so we have an average one in a mall parking lot put on by ONE small Rotary organization that refuses to loosen it's grip. There are some growing pains to work out but it needs to happen since BBQ is gaining momentum up here.

Politics and infighting in a state the size of Dallas. I could imagine how it would be trying to convince several comps to consolidate in TX. I do not envy the organizers of events competing for teams. I wonder if the market will get flooded like it did with golf tournaments.
_________________
D. Tillery
Texan transplanted in Billings, MT
www.mrcustomsteel.com

DawgPhan · BBQ Super Pro Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3444

Big Tom · Posted: Oct 03 2006 Post subject:

I believe that the television programs about the BBQ competitions will help stimulate interest in the contests. The down side to shows is they don't offer the whole picture as to what is involved in cooking a competinon.

I too think there will wind up being a few sanctioning orgainzations that are very strong, and some others that may be more regional or specialized. I hope that MIM/MBA is one of the survivors.

I am a huge supporter of MIM/MBA, that has been the only type of competition that I have been cooking and judging in for more than ten years. I am concerned that the demands of the on-site judging style will prohibit many of the small teams from cooking more than 1 or 2 events a year. Alex (Ranucci's) and BigJim4x have both recently finished thier inaugural MIM/MBA contests as competitors. They were both able to have some success, but also had challenges just from a manpower need because of the judging style.

MIM/MBA is beginning to experiment with different styles for the judging process. The upcomming contest in Bolivar, TN (Oct 27 & 2 Cool

will have the traditional preliminary on-site and blind judging. The new twist is that the finals judging will be done blind. That should help level the playing field for the smaller teams that do have the quality product, but struggle with some of the dog & pony of the on-site and since the finals round is scored more critically in all of the judging criteria.

Another element that is going to have an effect on all of the sanctioning groups is the rising expenses for travel. Long term I feel that more of the privately funded teams will have to become more selective about when and where they compete.
_________________
Big Tom
Pigs-R-Us Cooking Team
Owensboro, KY / Corinth, MS

DawgPhan · BBQ Super Pro Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3444

Big Tom · Posted: Oct 03 2006 Post subject:

Dawg, you are not far off on the MIM/MBA meat estimates but the quantities are more like: one 80-120# hog, 6 to 8 whole shoulders, and one 30# case (15 racks) of loin backs. Some of the big money teams may cook 2 hogs at a single comp. We buy the shoulders and ribs by the case so the case quantities kind of dictate how much we will have to work with.

Another extreme example: the years that we have cooked ribs at the MIM World Championship we have bought 3 cases of ribs and picked and culled for the best 18 - 20 racks just for the Serious Saturday Stuff. The rest we cook and eat on the days before. One year we were lucky enough to have a sponsor that paid for the whole week (<$6000) so we did feed them some great cull ribs when they came by on the early nights.

For obvious reasons our team has scaled back from cooking many hogs in competitions, as well as just cooking all 3 categories. We have been cooking shoulders and ribs, we like the break between the categories for part of our rib cooking process so we like to cook the first and last categories (typically shoulders & ribs).

We will use 1 or 2 shoulders to build the preliminary blind box (just depends upon the fat content for the big chunks). We will then go through 3 more shoulders for the preliminary on-site, each judge will be served thier own shoulder. If we make the finals we will have at least 1 shoulder for those four judges.

With the ribs we will again pick & cull through 3-5 racks for the blind box out of 2-bone sections. Then another 3 racks for the preliminary on-site, each judge gets thier own rack. Again for finals we will serve each of the four judges thier own rack.

This is an example of our meat requirements for an MIM/MBA contest. They can be done with smaller amounts. The judging and scoring process does not lend its self to hand-me-downs or leftovers for the different judges.

I have commented earlier that the quantity requirements for the different categories contribute to the cost considerations that some potential new teams may steer clear of the MIM/MBA events, not to mention the need to have a cooker(s) that can cook the quantity for the contest time line.
_________________
Big Tom
Pigs-R-Us Cooking Team
Owensboro, KY / Corinth, MS

DawgPhan · BBQ Super Pro Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3444

Ahhh, so you give each judge his own shoulder and rack of ribs....hmm..I wouldnt have thought about that...I guess it makes sense though. I know there are certainly areas that I would rather pull from for the judging so it makes sense to have 1 shoulder for each judge...so probably closer to $1000 in meat or more on the upper end of the scale...

Big Tom · Posted: Oct 03 2006 Post subject:

We don't spend that much, but I am sure there are some that do. Our contest meat expenses are usually around $300 or less. Keep in mind that we are not cooking many whole hogs, our cost is for 2 cases of shoulders (60# / case average) and one case of loin back ribs (15 racks).

When we were cooking more whole hogs the highest price we paid per pound was around $1.80 for a 100# hog. That is nearly another $200 to the meat bill with taxes. I don't know what the hog costs are now, but that was another factor that our self funded cooking team chose to move to cooking more shoulders in competitions.
_________________
Big Tom
Pigs-R-Us Cooking Team
Owensboro, KY / Corinth, MS

BBQCZAR · Posted: Oct 05 2006 Post subject:

I am new to competition,but I think it is pretty bad when you have to prepare about 300lbs of meat just for the judging(like in MIM contests)and it REALLY limits alot of participation because of expense.I may be way off base here,but when you have to have 3-4 K to even enter a contest,it just does not seem worth it ! Don't get me wrong,I plan on spending more than that in contests over the next year,I just am not going to spend that on 1 contest.I think you would get more experience and have ALOT more fun doing several contests for the cost of doing one.I may change my mind in the future,but just seems theye HAS to be a less expensive way to do these MIM comps.Am I wrong? Really let me know,I am new so don't mind any criticism,constructive or otherwise .thanks !

3970010 · Posted: Oct 05 2006 Post subject:

Wow, you guys are talking about a lot of money. Those are probably pretty darn nice events but I will admit I could not afford them. Our events usually cost us $100 to $150 (sometimes less if its a beer joint cook) for the entry fee. Then I buy two whole chickens (less than $10 for the both of them), two 10lb or 11lb briskets ($1.39 a lb) and 3 or 4 racks of spare ribs ($1.69 lb usually). Then it usually cost me about $15 in wood for the pit. Factor in ice, cokes, bottled water, and of course beer and margarita mix and tequila for the margarita machine. We usually bring some eggs and beans and tortillas. I usually do about two cookoffs a month. I am sponsored for half of the entry fee and half of the seasoning and meat cost. I could not imaging spending $3000 just to cook for one event.

DawgPhan · BBQ Super Pro Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3444

3970010 · Posted: Oct 05 2006 Post subject:

Big Tom · Posted: Oct 05 2006 Post subject:

Slow down a bit guys, the MIM/MBA contests are not as expensive as it may appear. The one extreme is THE Memphis In May World Championship, that one is an easy $2000 for a bare minimum contest weekend, all expenses and fees included.

The other regular MIM/MBA circuit contests are not that expensive, but will cost more than most KCBS style events. In an MIM/MBA contest you only have to enter a single meat category if preferred (shoulder, hog, or ribs). True there is still alot of meat that most teams will cook for the judging, but that is just because of the different judging styles/processes. Teams can and do succeed by cooking smaller or minimum quantities, they just don't allow themselves much margin for error if a shoulder or rack or two of ribs does not turn out to your liking.

I got distracted a bit, the entry fees per category are around $100 - $125. The meat costs for ribs or shoulders is also around $125. For starters a minimum entry expense could be around $250 without any extras. The on-site judging also gets misrepresented; it is not about big fancy trailers and cookers or elaborate table settings for the judges. According to the judges instructions none of that is supposed to count.

The up front expense of tents and cookers will be higher for the MIM/MBA competitor. You will need bigger or more cookers to cook the quantities. It is unfourtunate that the MIM/MBA contests are primarily Southeastern events. I think that if more folks did have the chance to enter and compete, they may realize that this style of contest is not all bad.

Bottom line, contest cooking, like any competitive activity can be as expensive as you want to make it. None of it is cheap whether golf, fishing, racing, or BBQ. You have the options of spending what you are comfortable with to compete.
_________________
Big Tom
Pigs-R-Us Cooking Team
Owensboro, KY / Corinth, MS

Bigjim4x · Posted: Oct 05 2006 Post subject:

BBQCZAR · Posted: Oct 05 2006 Post subject:

The on-site judging also gets misrepresented; it is not about big fancy trailers and cookers or elaborate table settings for the judges. According to the judges instructions none of that is supposed to count.

Oh ,but it does count, I have heard countless tales about that.It may not count at ALL MIM events,but at alot the judges DO take into account smokers,table arrangments,etc. even though they are not supposed to.You are right though,it is like any hobby,youi can spend as much as you want and yes like anything else you have to spend money to win,just depends on how much you want to spend.I, like many other just feel discouraged when you read about the sometimes massive quantities of meat that need to be cooked just for the judging,I think it is just overwhelming for alot,even if you have the money and the smoker.I also wish there were more southwest MIM contests available,I would enter more.

mrcustomsteel · Posted: Oct 06 2006 Post subject:

I can see the need arising for the evolution of one of the sanctioning bodies to incorporate some of the best things about the other. Personally, I would like to see KCBS have an on-site judging aspect. I would love to do the presentation part but I'm not a big fan of the MIM meat categories.

Events and sanctioning bodies will have to work harder to attract teams and sponsors as more and more organizations try to put on cook-offs. It's like when charity golf tournaments got really popular about 15 years ago. There were so many to choose from that they were all having trouble filling up.
_________________
D. Tillery
Texan transplanted in Billings, MT
www.mrcustomsteel.com

Bedlam BBQ · Posted: Oct 06 2006 Post subject:

Bedlam BBQ · Posted: Oct 06 2006 Post subject:

And I'm not slamming anyone that drives a Buick or cooks on an ECB -- it's just an example of the ends of the extremes with regards to how much you have invested.
_________________
Steve

Stumper clone with Stoker
Bedlam BBQ
Competition Team

Big Tom · Posted: Oct 06 2006 Post subject:

The blind judging part of the preliminary round takes place at the same time as the on-site judging begins. Each of the on-site judges will come in 20 minute intervals. If shoulders start at 11:00. The blind sample would be turned in between 10:45 - 11:00, from 11:00 -12:00 the on-site judges would go to each asigned team in a specific order determined on the score cards. They are to spend 10-15 minutes with each team.

I agree that some judges may be biased towards a team based on the set-up or the something else. The same can be true of the all-blind circuits if a judge does not like a characteristic of a sample they can effect the score, even if the sample may be considered perfect by others. Theses are the human elements that regulations and instructions try to minimize, but they can't be eliminated.

In some upcomming contests MIM/MBA is planning to experiement with some different judging formats. I look forward to some changes, but I truly enjoy the presentation portion of the on-site (many are terrified of it). I like the idea of Blind finals, since that ultimately will determine the top 3 for each category and the Grand Champion, this could minimize the possiblility of any popularity or poltitical shenanigans taking place in this round. I think another good thing with the MIM/MBA judging is the comparative judging for the judges' given samples, instead of each sample being judged independently.
_________________
Big Tom
Pigs-R-Us Cooking Team
Owensboro, KY / Corinth, MS

Bedlam BBQ · Posted: Oct 06 2006 Post subject:

I guess with any type of competition, there will be the human factor with judges. We just can't let that deter us from wanting to compete. As long as you are enjoying what you are doing and having fun, then everyone is a winner (sorry for being so corny).
_________________
Steve

Stumper clone with Stoker
Bedlam BBQ
Competition Team

Big Tom · Posted: Oct 07 2006 Post subject:

Very True, for all the frustration and aggrivation, along with the expense. We better be having some fun at this (or any other competitive hobby) or we are the ultimate gluttons for punishment.
_________________
Big Tom
Pigs-R-Us Cooking Team
Owensboro, KY / Corinth, MS