Complete novice, 1st smoke questions.

[kipp438]

Hi all, I am picking up a Master Forge gas smoker I ordered from Lowes tomorrow. I have been doing quite a lot of reading on these forums and other sites, and have picked up so much info. There are some things I still have questions about though. I am going to try to smoke a pork butt. I plan on using just dry rub, get smoker temp as close to 220-230 as I can get, and just be patient and wait till the meat gets to 190-200. I have both hickory chunks and hickory chips, but while im out and about tomorrow, I am going to try to find some apple wood.

1. Should I use the chucks, chips, or both? If I use chunks, should I soak them in water as I would the chips? How much do I use at once?

2. How long should I actually "smoke" it while on the smoker? What I mean is, do I just keep adding wood for smoke the whole time, or is there a certain point at which I should stop adding wood. I dont want to over smoke it.

3. Speaking about adding wood...do I need to dump out the ash from the burned wood at any point during the smoke, sorry for such a rookie question, but I didnt see any place that addressed this.

4. I see a bunch of people smoke different things together. Is it ever an issue with flavor, such as smoking a pork butt and smoking fish at the same time? I wouldnt want the pork to get fishy tasting.

5. When smoking multiple things, does it matter what gets placed where on the racks?

6. I see a ton of rub recipes, but is there one or two basic recipes I should try? I would love to maybe even smoke 2 small butts, with one using a spicier rub, and the other using something not spicy for the wife and kids.

Thanks everybody for any advice!

[k.a.m.]

Welcome to the ring kipp438@yahoo.com, looking forward to seeing some pics of your cooks and congrats on your new cooker.
If you use the wood chunks I would not soak them, the chips you can soak as this will help slow their burn.
Your time in the smoke will depend on the flavor you are looking for. I use wood chunks in my uprights the entire time but I do not wrap until resting time. If you wrap early in the cook say at 165° there is no need in using any more wood.
If you start having an abundance of ash build up then you might empty it this will be a judgment call at that time.
I would never smoke fish and pork at the same time I believe the pork will take on the fish smell.
As far as cooking different meats at one time always remember that your chicken goes on the bottom never above anything else.
I have heard good things about the southern succor rub but have never tried it I usually use commercial rubs a Big Ron's is the top of the list.
I hope this helps.
_________________
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

Hybrid Cooker

[DennyD]

If you get ash buildup so high you believe it may be depriving your charcoal of good air, if you have some kind of long poker you can push the ash to the sied with, that will disrupt your burn much less than emptying the ash.

I've smoked fish at the same time as pork, beef and chicken. As long as the juices from the fish aren't dripping on other meats, the flavors don't mix. I've never smelled fishy smells even coming from the smoker unless I am smoking all fish. Just don't put fish directly above other meats. Same goes for chicken... especially if the other meats will be done before the chicken. Sanitary and bacteria concerns with the chicken.
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DennyD

GrillPro Cabinet Smoker(mods)
Chargriller ProDeluxe(mods)
Uniflame 16" Kettle Grill
22" CKG(cheap kettle grill)
Brinkman gasser w/smoker box
Wood Burning Firepit/Smoker
Stovetop Smoker for sub-zero days

[kipp438]

Thanks for the replies guys! I thought of a couple more questions if you don't mind. Do I have to preheat the smoker before a smoke? And, this might be preference, but I'd like your thoughts...Should I use water, or sand for butts? ribs? fish? Is there some kind of "rule of thumb" with this? Thanks again guys, much appreciated!

[DennyD]

Yes you should preheat the smoker or it will take a very long time to get up to temp when a load of 40° to room temperature meat is put in it.

My personal preference is not to fill a water pan with water. According to Cook's Illustrated, a pan of water in the smoker did nothing discernible for the meat.

Sand would be good.... anything that can absorb and hold heat. Problem with water is that it can only hold at 212° and is constantly using heat to steam off the water. A heavy object or substance of some sort that can absorb heat and keep on climbing... so it might be at 300° or more on it's surface, kept where the water pan is normally, will do much more to help your smoker hold and recover temperature when you have to check your meat or open the door to the cooking chamber for any reason.

Since figuring that out and doing it, my vertical cooker has been MUCH more stabile... and comes right back to temperature within 5-10 min after having the door open to check meat temps, rotate meat,, etc.
_________________
DennyD

GrillPro Cabinet Smoker(mods)
Chargriller ProDeluxe(mods)
Uniflame 16" Kettle Grill
22" CKG(cheap kettle grill)
Brinkman gasser w/smoker box
Wood Burning Firepit/Smoker
Stovetop Smoker for sub-zero days

[feldon30]

I actually have a question for the original poster. How did you arrive at the decision to get the Master Forge gas smoker? Not to start any kind of debate, but I'm always curious about these things.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your cooks.
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[k.a.m.]

kipp438@yahoo.com, water or sand is an age old debate. I use water in all my uprights and love the results. So I would suggest that you experiment with both to see which fits your comfort level.
I would also agree to pre-heat your cooker and get her up to temp and stable before putting in your meat.
_________________
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

Hybrid Cooker

[kipp438]

Thanks again, guys.

DennyD, I started getting the bug to try smoking a few weeks ago after talking about it with my 90yo grandfather. I'm normally the type of guy to overthink my purchases and research everything, but I ended up buying a gas smoker from Walmart on a whim. After I got home I was disappointed with the reviews. It had a waterpan and chip pan that was one piece, as some reviewers pointed out, the design had the water and chips directly over the heat, covering almost the entire bottom area of the smoker. Some reviews said that it prevents the heat from getting to the food, so you have to crank up the heat, which burned off the water and chips faster than they wanted. Im sure a coulpe mods could have cured it, but I wasnt in the mood to tinker, so I brought it back. I decided that I should stay with a cheaper smoker to start, at least until the wife got a taste for smoked food! I looked around on the internet for one under $150. It seemed like nothing was going to be perfect in that price range, so I went by the reviews. In that price range, it seamed like propane was the way to go... I might be wrong, but I have a couple extra propane tanks around so I thought it made sense. I also wanted something that could hold a temperature in colder weather. Anyway, The Master Forge had good reviews on Lowes.com, like 4.5 stars out of 5, after 30 reviews. After watching some videos on smoking, I think if I dont like this smoker, I might try a Webber Smokey Mountain. I didnt like the idea of charcoal, but after seeing it in action, it looks pretty easy.

Looks like some common problems with the Master forge are the seal and the thermometer. I figured I'd seal it like another guy on this forum did, with high temp silicone and an oven seal, if it needs it. I also bought a Maverick et-73.

[DennyD]

Mine is a non insulated vertical charcoal smoker. So you wouldn't have quite the stability problems with an LP smoker. I had a ECB for 20 years that was converted to gas for the last 15 years. Pretty much set it and forget it.... except for opening it up. Then gas can take as long to get back up to temp as charcoal. I hear you on thermometer issues. The one that came on mine was a pos... broke it trying to recalibrate it, and ended up putting it back in the hole it was in just because nothing else would fit there. I use candy thermometers to keep track of my cabinet temperature. Have several small holes the size of the probe drilled at different levels, so I can stick a thermometer in them, using the clip on the thermometer to position and balance it. Works real good to monitor cooking grate temps without having to open it up. Like the first one you bought, mine has a water pan(that I don't use) that is front to back and side to side.... kept the fire chamber extremely hot, and the heat from reaching the cooking chamber, I don't use it anymore, but have a heavy cast iron smoker box filled with lava rock that I set a drip pan on, a little ways above the heat source. It blocks and diffuses the heat since it's a bit bigger as the charcoal ring I am now using. That's working much better for me in the cheapo thin walled smoker I have than a water pan. I tried a smaller water pan that didn't block all the heat but still had a lot of problems getting back up to temp whenever I opened it.

After my weekend cook, I went out 4-5 hours later and everything had cooled down except the heat sink/diffuser I use, which was still very warm. Water would have cooled by then. Good luck... try it out as is and see what you've got. Hope that works out well for you, but if it doesn't don't be afraid to make some small changes.
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DennyD

GrillPro Cabinet Smoker(mods)
Chargriller ProDeluxe(mods)
Uniflame 16" Kettle Grill
22" CKG(cheap kettle grill)
Brinkman gasser w/smoker box
Wood Burning Firepit/Smoker
Stovetop Smoker for sub-zero days

[Big Ron]

Kipp, welcome. Looking forward to seeing your results
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[kipp438]

Ok, the butt smoke is a go! I am pumped. I got the smoker home, put it together and ran her through a seasoning run. I was going to do some trout this evening, but it got late so I decided to go right for the butts. I found a couple basic recipes on the internet and thought Id give 2 butts a shot. Probably dumb, as my first smoke has a high probability for failure, but after reading these forums and getting you guys to answer my questions, along with my et-73, I feel fairly confident I can pull it off. Also I wanted to compare 2 rub recipes side by side. I loaded it with mostly apple wood chips, and put 5-6 hickory chunks in there for good measure.

I got the smoker warmed up real good to about 375 degrees, I have nice plumes of thick white smoke and ash pouring out of the stack.

Ok, ok, I kid. Really, she is holding steady at about 230- 235. I got a few dips in temp, to 225 or so, but then it climbs right back up to 235. The meat temp is rising more quickly than I thought. I know it will still take the 12+ hours to hit my temp, but it is interesting to me to see how it warms up rather quickly, it went from 50ish to 77 in about 40 minutes. I really like this Maverick thermometer, though I have found my built in thermometer is only off by about 10 degrees, which seems pretty good from what I have read about these cheapy smoker thermos.

I would like to know more about how to use the vents on my smoker. If anyone that has a similar smoker (vertical propane) want to let me know how you use the vents that would be great. right now I have both lower side vents open about 50%, and top is open 75%. I have no rhyme or reason for this, it just looked good.

I took a few pics so far, but Im not so sure I know how to put them on here.

[DennyD]

I don't know about the vents. Propane is a whole different animal and generally requires a lot of air to burn right. That's why the great big vents across the back of gas grills. If you try and block them propane doesn't burn quite right unless your flame can go really low. Wasn't a problem with my ECB converted to gas. I set a fryer burner in the bottom of it, which was otherwise wide open. I'll betcha those butts will be up to temp in about 9-9 1/2 hrs. Ive never had em take longer even when cooking two, at about the same temp you're running. Will look for pics of finished product tomorrow. Sounds like you're doing fine.
_________________
DennyD

GrillPro Cabinet Smoker(mods)
Chargriller ProDeluxe(mods)
Uniflame 16" Kettle Grill
22" CKG(cheap kettle grill)
Brinkman gasser w/smoker box
Wood Burning Firepit/Smoker
Stovetop Smoker for sub-zero days

[Jarhead]

kipp438, Welcome aboard and congrats on the new smoker.
I bought mine back in late spring for mainly using as a portable holding oven. Since then I went with 2 heated Cambros (which I love).
Go with the sand in the water pan because IMO the propane puts off water vapor as it burns.
Your butts will climb to 160ish fairly quickly and then stall for an unknown amount of time while the fat renders. Then it will take off again. So keep an eye on your temps the last hour or two.
The vents, I have played with, I leave the top wide open and the bottom ones at about 50%.
I use dry chips and small chunks. You may have to spit them up with a straight clawed hammer. Not Hi-Tech, but it works.
I also found out that about a quarter inch above Low is where you need to set the temp. It will give you about 240°.
My stock therm is about 5 off. not bad IMO. I've seen much worse.
The lighter is a POS, so you might as well call for a replacement to have on hand. I now have 3. Everytime I fire it up I call.
Don't expect the same flavor or smoke ring that you get from wood or charcoal. It is a whole lot milder.
If you are using 30# tanks (~ 4 gal) they will last for about 2 long cooks.
Good luck and post some pics.
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[kipp438]

Well 9.5 hours in and it has been an interesting night. We had some rain storms come through at about 4am. How quickly the heavy rain took the heat from the smoker! It had been running a steady 230 when I left it for the night. The Maverick's alarm sounded when it hit 210. I watched it drop in about 5 minutes to 195. Well, out in the rain I go to turn it up a little. Just a very small bump up and the temp rose back to where it was, and after the rain stopped it held at 248. It has been a couple hours since then, the butts are at 169.

Thanks for the tips on the smoker, Jarhead. I looked at the vents after I wrote I had them at 50%. I guess they were more like 100% open. I think the airflow let my wood burn off too quickly. I closed the vents to about 30% and added a few more hickory chunks. After that I think the smoke was lighter, and lasted longer.

[KAKid]

[GeorgeH]

1. Should I use the chucks, chips, or both? If I use chunks, should I soak them in water as I would the chips? How much do I use at once?

It really depends on your smoker. The directions that come with it may help.

2. How long should I actually "smoke" it while on the smoker? What I mean is, do I just keep adding wood for smoke the whole time, or is there a certain point at which I should stop adding wood. I dont want to over smoke it.

A lot of folks cook a butt to about 165 to 175 degf and wrap with foil to help keep the meat moist. No point in adding wood chips when you foil.

3. Speaking about adding wood...do I need to dump out the ash from the burned wood at any point during the smoke, sorry for such a rookie question, but I didnt see any place that addressed this.

You shouldn't have much ash from one smoke to bother with it. If fact, you might get burned trying to do it so I would say no.

4. I see a bunch of people smoke different things together. Is it ever an issue with flavor, such as smoking a pork butt and smoking fish at the same time? I wouldnt want the pork to get fishy tasting.

If you smoke different things side by side, there should be no problem. If you have shelves, the meat will drip which will affect the flavor. So you will probably want to stack the same type of meats above each other if you have shelves.

5. When smoking multiple things, does it matter what gets placed where on the racks?

Some parts of your smoker may get hotter than other parts. Otherwise, I would say no.

6. I see a ton of rub recipes, but is there one or two basic recipes I should try? I would love to maybe even smoke 2 small butts, with one using a spicier rub, and the other using something not spicy for the wife and kids.

Part of the fun to to try different rubs. Some folks inject their butts. Personally, I tend to stay away from commercially made products because they tend to have too much salt (one of the cheapest ingredients that people tend to like).

I have found it is pretty hard to completely mess up smoking a butt. You just have to be patient because it takes a while to get above 185 degf if you plan to pull it. I like to use a digital thermometer stuck in the meat so I can tell the temperature without opening the smoker up.

George

[kipp438]

10.5 hours now. Getting very close, its at 180 degrees. Two questions...

1. What is the optimal meat temp to remove them?

2. I have two 5lb butts in. one in the top shelf, one just below it. I have the thermometer in the top one. Will the top or bottom one be hotter first, or will they be close to the same?

Edit: My timer stopped. Must have been when my two year old was pretending it was his telephone I guess Im way off, Im at almost 15 hours! Seems a bit long.

[the_hunchback]

[GeorgeH]

You really need to use an instant read themometer on both because everybodies cooker is different. If you plan on pulling them, you have got to get at least to 185. 190 to 195 is better.

George

[kipp438]

They're 5lb butts. I maybe should check the lower one, but I didnt want to open the door till they were done. Im trying to resist the urge to crank the heat up to get them done!

Hunchback, what are your target temps for the smoker itself through the cooking process?