General Question re: importance of appearance

EastTennQcrew · Posted: Jun 25 2010 Post subject:

Well, I don't think the apprance will really make a change on the score for taste.

The boxes are all passed around and scored. Then the boxes are passed around and the samples are placed on your plates. Then you score each sample one at a time for taste and tenderness.

The idea that you will hold over the score for the apperance to the taste score, does not make sence. In our judging class they offered us a piece of chicken which did not look very good. But when we tasted it everyone at our table made the same comment. Can't judge a book by it's cover.

Apperance 5-6
Taste 8-9

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Jarhead · Posted: Jun 25 2010 Post subject:

compound13, you are like an itch that I can't scratch, so go away. You ain't got the Cojones to post where you are located, your experience in the world of BBQ other than NONE.
People were trying to help your DA and you just flamed every one of us. Go the the library, check out a book on BBQ and read it. When you grow up come back and ask intelligent questions.
This thread is a waste of my time and I hope SoEzzy shuts it down.
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INmitch · BBQ Fan Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 295

ETQcrew I couldn't have said it better! If taste were judged right after the apperance it would be a different ballgame but... there is a lot of time after you pull each sample from the box until you actually score it on taste & tenderness. Granted I'm sure each judge remembers where that piece came from but I think a lot is forgotten inbetween. I'm looking at my score sheet from last weekend on brisket. I went way overboard trying to put to much flavor in my brisket. Rolling Eyes

Everyone said it had a store boughten jerky taste to it. Apperance scores were9,8,9,8,9,9. Tast & tenderness were 67,99,67,67,77,78. My apperance didn't fool anyone. (Well I guess judge #2 has good taste Cool

) But I'm starting to think apperance doesn't have as much influence on the other catagories as I once thought. Who knows It's back to the basics this weekend in Auburn Hills. We'll see what happens. Confused

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crash55r · Newbie Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 59

I think it was a very fair question. If we, as competitors, cant help the newbees, then what good are we doing as ambassadors of this "sport".

Personally, our team attempts to make every box as awesome as we can make it appearance wise. There are teams out there that have won a first place in a category by 2/10000's of a point. Anyone that says that appearance doesnt count is ludicrous.....IMHO.

I 100% agree that taste and texture mean much more, but appearance can and does help a final score...again IMHO.
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compound13 · Joined: 29 Aug 2008 Posts: 18

Jugghead, coming from a spam champion those words cut real de
Others, Thx for the real life examples. Inmitch, I hope you get a table full of "judge #2" at your next competition!

Tim_Abrahamson · Posted: Jun 25 2010 Post subject:

Ok..my 2c...from a judges perspective

All judging is subjective (educated opinion) and I think the least amount of variation occurs in the appearance aspect. I think most everyone can agree about what a good box looks like. You get more variation with tenderness and to a lesser extent with taste. Here you get into the physical mechanics of masticating and tasting food influenced by the previous experiences of the judge. In classes it is easier to teach what a box should look like. Less easy to what it should taste or feel like...

It would be interesting to do an analysis of variation on the categries in 20-30 KCBS events. (Sorry...Im an economist) It would be insightful to just see the difference in variation between categories. Also it would be interesting to see the differences between a veteren judge vs a 1 yr judge.

As to the format...we get 6 different boxes passed in front of our noses...then we get the boxes repassed in the same order to select a sample. If our theory is that the last rib we see would influence the taste of the first rib we taste, then it would make sense that the visual impact of rib #6 would actually affect the taste of rib #1. With statistical sampling that may be proovable...but I'm not sure what one would do with the information...
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DawgPhan · BBQ Super Pro Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3444

I know I have turned in plenty of boxes with all 9's for appearance and then get killed on the taste/tenderness...mostly this happens on brisket. Which tells me that while the judges sat their thinking about how great my brisket was going to be, when they actually sampled it, they forgot all about that appearance score and started thinking of the cotton ball expanding in their mouth.

Bedlam BBQ · Posted: Jun 26 2010 Post subject:

compound13, I think you have some very good question and one that is asked by many that are regulars in competition BBQ. Unfortunately, it only took someone to their second post on this thread to get rude and tell you your ideas were dumb and to move on. I don't believe you came on this forum to be put down and told to move on. For that I would like to appologize on behalf of us that are delighted to see newcomers with such an interest in competition BBQ. We are passionate about our sport but we also must remember that not everyone has the same level of experience or knowlegdge. I like that I can ask a more experience team a question and then turn around and answer a question for a 1st time team. We all took our turn learning.

You asked a very reasonable question and you deserve a reasonable response.

In KCBS, there are 3 criteria an entry is judged on and Appearance is one of those criteria (each criteria is weighted when figuring the final score). So, since appearance is a judging criteria, teams should do their best to make the entry look as appetizing as possible -- you don't want to leave any possible points on the table (meaning, you want as high of score from each judge that you can get).

Yes, you do "eat with your eyes" but that is just a fact of being human. Yes, the judges are supposed to judge each criteria separetly (just like they are supposed to judge each entry on its own merit and not compare entries). But we are human and comparing is just how we do things when presented with choices. So as a competitor, we know this going in and just accept it -- if not, we should get out of competition BBQ. It's not an exact science but its the best we have at this time.

As to your idea of having a different set of judges to do the appearance part of the judging. While that does sound like a good idea, at most comps it hard enough to get enough judges already. To need a complete additional set of judges would be almost impossible -- at least from the competitions I've gone to. At one competition, they came around early Saturday morning and asked teams if they had any spectators/visitors that would be available to judge because they were short enough judges. Yes, this is quite out of the norm because you can just imagine the thoughts going through the teams in the area. But sometimes, out of the norm things must be done -- we have just come to accept them. Otherwise, we should be getting out of competition BBQ.
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DawgPhan · BBQ Super Pro Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 3444

compound13 · Joined: 29 Aug 2008 Posts: 18

Thx for all the input. No hard feelings and continued success to ALL in the future.