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mkevenson BBQ Fan

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 118 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Apr 12 2010 Post subject: The why of salt in long term dry rub, opinions please |
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As a long time home cook and student of the art, I am wondering why so many if not all dry rub recipes include salt, especially if the rub is going to be on the meat long term. Say over night.
My teaching regarding meat and salt is that salt will draw out moisture from the meat and should be applied just before or not too long before cooking. In almost all of the dry rub recipes I have seen, salt is the #2 or #3 component and the rub is left on the meat for several hours if not overnight. I have never personally done an experiment to see if salt really draws moisture out of meat, I have just taken for granted that it does. I have poured salt on my carpet when I spilled wine and I see how it draws the liquid out of the carpet, any similarities?
I know there must be a good reason to add salt in the rub instead of adding it to the meat just before smoking but I don't know why. Oh, I do understand the flavor enhancing properties of salt, so it's not why one adds salt, it is why one adds it in the beginning of a long stay on the product.
Thanks for your help.
Mark _________________ We're just cookin here!
CBJ, WSM, UDS
Mark's Kitchen and Smokin' BBQ |
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CliffC BBQ Pro

Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 736 Location: Old Town Maine
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Posted: Apr 13 2010 Post subject: |
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I think that the salt in rubs is there for two reasons:
1. Taste, people like salty.
2. Tradition, because that's the way it's done.
In BBQ, where you want the meat moist not dryed out, it seems to be counter intuitve to me that you would want to draw moisture from the meat with anything before you cook it. To me the purpose of a dry rub is to help seal the surface of the meat with a "bark" to help keep moisture in on long cooks. |
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Alien BBQ BBQ All Star

Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 5426 Location: Roswell, New Mexico
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Posted: Apr 13 2010 Post subject: |
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Without breaking into a thesis on sodium movement across a gradient and the principles of osmosis, Basically it is not the salt but rather when you apply it. Initially salt will pull moisture out of the meat and or reduce the gameness of wild meat by extracting blood. However water is generally not flavored so by applying the salt early and allowing the meat to rest, salt will start to cause the protein bonds to relax and will allow the meat to become more tender. This is why you would (or could) place your spices along with the salt on the meat and when the bonds relax, it will pull a small amount of rub back into the meat in an attempt to achieve homeostasis. _________________ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeloberry |
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mkevenson BBQ Fan

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 118 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Apr 13 2010 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. Just for WIW I was given this references that seems to address this subject.
http://www.articlealley.com/article_814132_26.html _________________ We're just cookin here!
CBJ, WSM, UDS
Mark's Kitchen and Smokin' BBQ |
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CliffC BBQ Pro

Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 736 Location: Old Town Maine
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Posted: Apr 14 2010 Post subject: |
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| Alien BBQ wrote: | | Without breaking into a thesis on sodium movement across a gradient and the principles of osmosis, Basically it is not the salt but rather when you apply it. Initially salt will pull moisture out of the meat and or reduce the gameness of wild meat by extracting blood. However water is generally not flavored so by applying the salt early and allowing the meat to rest, salt will start to cause the protein bonds to relax and will allow the meat to become more tender. This is why you would (or could) place your spices along with the salt on the meat and when the bonds relax, it will pull a small amount of rub back into the meat in an attempt to achieve homeostasis. |
So a rub with a high salt content applied 6-12 hours before cooking acts as a dry marinade? If this is the case I should change #2 in my previous post. By high I mean 1:1 salt to paprika as a base would be "high salt" as opposed to a 1:4 salt to paprika = "low salt". |
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Big Ron BBQ Super Pro

Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 2601 Location: Houston
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Posted: Apr 17 2010 Post subject: |
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From some one who makes and sells rub. .
Salt is the cheapest and heaviest ingredient in a rub. Helps with your profit. That is one reason some low sodium rubs are a little more expensive It also adds flavor and yes pulls the moistier out of anything it is applied to if left on too long. _________________ Big Ron
Owner and Founder
Big Ron's Rub: Just Rub It On!
www.bigronswebsite.com
(Find Big Ron's Rub on Facebook)
Big Ron's Custom Reverse Flow Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQxbfOx_MOE |
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mkevenson BBQ Fan

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 118 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Apr 17 2010 Post subject: |
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| Big Ron wrote: | From some one who makes and sells rub. .
Salt is the cheapest and heaviest ingredient in a rub. Helps with your profit. That is one reason some low sodium rubs are a little more expensive It also adds flavor and yes pulls the moistier out of anything it is applied to if left on too long. |
Big Ron, Do tell. How long is too long? The reference I sited earlier seems to suggest that after the salt draws the moisture towards the surface it is then reabsorbed back into the meat. Is this your experience? Oh, and what % of salt in the rub do you feel is the best?
Thanks for your input.
Mark _________________ We're just cookin here!
CBJ, WSM, UDS
Mark's Kitchen and Smokin' BBQ |
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Big Ron BBQ Super Pro

Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 2601 Location: Houston
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Posted: Apr 18 2010 Post subject: |
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I never let something season so long to reabsorb anything that I know of. I brine poultry and use sea salt because it is stronger so you don't have to use as much. My rub has 20 mg of sodium per 1/4 tsp serving, so it is not very much. _________________ Big Ron
Owner and Founder
Big Ron's Rub: Just Rub It On!
www.bigronswebsite.com
(Find Big Ron's Rub on Facebook)
Big Ron's Custom Reverse Flow Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQxbfOx_MOE |
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RodinBangkok BBQ Super Fan

Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 491 Location: Bangkok Thailand
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Posted: Apr 18 2010 Post subject: |
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A controlled brine will submerse the meat in a basic mixture of salt and water, allowing uniform osmosis to take place, adding other spices, etc may enhance the flavors, but its quite frankly debatable how effective these will be. A rub using solid salt my work but needs to be dissolved before it can be absorbed and is not a uniform brining method. Stick to the science, weigh your meat block, determine the percent brine you need or prefer, then make a sufficient quantity to cover the meat block for the time you prefer, this can be based on the thickness of the cut your brining. There are many variables, up to you to determine, but do not rely on a dry salt rub to give you a uniform brine, the salt must be soluble to perform correctly. _________________ Rod |
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GeorgeH BBQ Super Fan
Joined: 30 Aug 2009 Posts: 445 Location: Arkansas, between Little Rock and Fort Smith
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Posted: Jun 06 2010 Post subject: |
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I have found I need to reduce the salt content in a rub if I let it sit on the meat overnight otherwise the meat ends up too salty. At least it works that way on ribs. In fact, I don't buy commercial rubs anymore. I like Cavender's but it also has too much salt. I sometimes mix Cavender's half and half with the table blend type of Mrs. Dash and put it on pork chops. The reason commercial blends have so much salt is that it is the cheapest ingredient that everyone likes. I'm surprised that Mrs. Dash survived the market.
George |
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mkevenson BBQ Fan

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 118 Location: California Bay Area
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Posted: Jun 06 2010 Post subject: |
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Thanks George, and everyone for your help.
Mark _________________ We're just cookin here!
CBJ, WSM, UDS
Mark's Kitchen and Smokin' BBQ |
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feldon30 BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Posts: 1623 Location: Charlotte or Thereabouts
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Posted: Jun 06 2010 Post subject: |
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If salt only drew the moisture out of the meat and then stopped there, brines wouldn't work. They would just sit on the surface of the meat and do nothing.
But once the salt has drawn the moisture out of the meat, the saltwater will then try to reach an equilibrium with the remaining moisture in the meat. As a result, the salt-laden moisture is drawn BACK into the meat, along with all of your other seasonings.
I think a reasonable amount of salt is a crucial component to cooking.
For instance, salt added to onions before sauteeing them speeds up their expulsion of moisture, which initially slows down cooking, but in the long run, the moisture being drawn out early gets the onions browned faster, and builds better flavor in the process.
Salt added to scrambled eggs before they hit the pan will not only retain moisture, but also protect the protein strands. Scrambled eggs that have not been salted tend to weep a lot of water if they sit for even a couple of minutes. Pre-salting fixes this problem.
If you've never watched America's Test Kitchen on TV, I highly recommend it. They have goofy animated segments that cover the science of food. With my father's heart condition, I learned to use less salt, and to use it wisely at key points in cooking when the most flavor can be built. _________________ 22" Weber Smokey Mountain + Weber Spirit |
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GeorgeH BBQ Super Fan
Joined: 30 Aug 2009 Posts: 445 Location: Arkansas, between Little Rock and Fort Smith
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Posted: Jun 07 2010 Post subject: |
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| feldon30 wrote: | If salt only drew the moisture out of the meat and then stopped there, brines wouldn't work. They would just sit on the surface of the meat and do nothing.
But once the salt has drawn the moisture out of the meat, the saltwater will then try to reach an equilibrium with the remaining moisture in the meat. As a result, the salt-laden moisture is drawn BACK into the meat, along with all of your other seasonings.
I think a reasonable amount of salt is a crucial component to cooking.
For instance, salt added to onions before sauteeing them speeds up their expulsion of moisture, which initially slows down cooking, but in the long run, the moisture being drawn out early gets the onions browned faster, and builds better flavor in the process.
Salt added to scrambled eggs before they hit the pan will not only retain moisture, but also protect the protein strands. Scrambled eggs that have not been salted tend to weep a lot of water if they sit for even a couple of minutes. Pre-salting fixes this problem.
If you've never watched America's Test Kitchen on TV, I highly recommend it. They have goofy animated segments that cover the science of food. With my father's heart condition, I learned to use less salt, and to use it wisely at key points in cooking when the most flavor can be built. |
I agree. If you want to take in less salt, it is better let the salt sit on the meat overnight and the flavor is better because like you say the salt pulls the other spices into the meat.
George |
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CliffC BBQ Pro

Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 736 Location: Old Town Maine
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Posted: Jun 07 2010 Post subject: |
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| CliffC wrote: | I think that the salt in rubs is there for two reasons:
1. Taste, people like salty.
2. Tradition, because that's the way it's done.
In BBQ, where you want the meat moist not dryed out, it seems to be counter intuitve to me that you would want to draw moisture from the meat with anything before you cook it. To me the purpose of a dry rub is to help seal the surface of the meat with a "bark" to help keep moisture in on long cooks. |
After reading all the posts I'll stick to the above explanation, especially #1. |
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cowboy4life BBQ Pro

Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 527 Location: Greenville, IL
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Posted: Jun 07 2010 Post subject: |
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| Alien BBQ wrote: | | Without breaking into a thesis on sodium movement across a gradient and the principles of osmosis, Basically it is not the salt but rather when you apply it. Initially salt will pull moisture out of the meat and or reduce the gameness of wild meat by extracting blood. However water is generally not flavored so by applying the salt early and allowing the meat to rest, salt will start to cause the protein bonds to relax and will allow the meat to become more tender. This is why you would (or could) place your spices along with the salt on the meat and when the bonds relax, it will pull a small amount of rub back into the meat in an attempt to achieve homeostasis. |
in english i believe this translates to "mmmm salt good, make food taste good mmmm" . its so easy this caveman understands it. lol |
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