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power draft controller(pic heavy w/ parts list) updated 4-11
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30 10 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soybomb wrote:
I don't know how well it works but the same place I was looking at the 12v pid at also sells their own smoker controller http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=170


I don't know if we ever got a fair assessment of this device. It was explained that it turns the fan on and off but later it was pointed out that most of the PID's do basically the same thing. No variable speed fan, just on and off.

I figure the PID is $33 and the pwr supply is $20 then add thermocouple, jacks, soldering iron and me learning how to wire something... That makes $75 priceless if it will get me a basic stoker...

I went through a computer building phase some years ago so I got tons of computer fans laying around. Even if I burn up 1 fan a year I figure I got a good 10 or 30 years before I go through my current stock of fans Smile

I'm thinking of sticking a fan on the intake tomorrow just to see what difference it makes.
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02 10 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, so much for that thought. I went to purchase the controller today and looks like they doubled the price. It's $137 now. No thanks...

I guess I need to assemble the parts to build a homebrew version now...
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Hugh_Jass
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02 10 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm,

On the Auberins site, here's the controller that's widely used in home brewing. It's layout, set up and function are pretty logical and user friendly.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106&zenid=8e62416b155cab3794a18fa24269f890

The K-type thermocouple

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106&zenid=8e62416b155cab3794a18fa24269f890

If you go electric, you'll need a solid state relay to control power

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=9

and probably a heat sink.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=9

If you decide to just use a 12v fan with wood or lump, you would only need the controller and thermocouple. If that's the case, you could just buy this pre-made box to house the pid. There's probably room enough to mount a audible alarm in the back of the box.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=166

w/o the relay and heat sink, it'd be ~$82 including shipping. I'm sure there's other models, especially on E-Bay, cheaper than this. I've had to call their customer service 3 times. That alone was worth the extra ~$10. If you can't tell I'm a Auber fanboy Embarassed Very Happy

Sorry in advance if this is redundant to you.

Cheers!
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02 10 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, your help is perfect....

What is the difference between "going electric" and using a 12V fan only? I thought the point of all of this was to run a fan that came on only when needed. Doesn't look like any of these set ups to include stoker and guru provides for variable speed fans so what difference are you describing?

Does this come with a wiring diagram or how will I know where to connect the wires?

I see lots of PID's on their site, simply stated, what is the basic difference between the controllers? I think the one at the beginning of this thread was only $33 so what's the difference between that one and this one?

TIA...
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Hugh_Jass
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02 10 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm wrote:
No, your help is perfect....

What is the difference between "going electric" and using a 12V fan only?


The difference is heat source. An electric smoker will use some type of electric heating element that is powered on an off by the controller. When using wood or lump, you're controlling the temp by stoking the fire with the fan.


Soapm wrote:
I thought the point of all of this was to run a fan that came on only when needed. Doesn't look like any of these set ups to include stoker and guru provides for variable speed fans so what difference are you describing?


Think of the controller like the thermostat in your home. When the temp in your home drops below the set point, the heat and fan are powered. That's the same concept in your smoker. The fan engages when the temp drops to a certain point and disengages when the desired higher temp is reached.

Really, you won't be using the PID algorithm. You'll just be telling the fan when to turn on and off. As I understand it, there's too many variables that change during the course of a smoke to incorporate the PID's logical functions.

Soapm wrote:
Does this come with a wiring diagram or how will I know where to connect the wires?


Yes, There's a manual on line associated with the controller. It includes examples and diagrams. It's really quite good.

Soapm wrote:
I see lots of PID's on their site, simply stated, what is the basic difference between the controllers? I think the one at the beginning of this thread was only $33 so what's the difference between that one and this one?


Again, as I understand them, the basic difference is accuracy. The controllers designed specifically for relay, ssr and ramp, soak have a greater degree of accuracy when using the logic functions (I think they're .2%). Also, as was described to me, they're more difficult to tune. When smoking, +/- 3ish degrees is tight enough control and like mentioned earlier the algorithm won't really come into play anyway.

Soapm wrote:
TIA...


You're welcome. Quite honestly, I'm considering building an UDS with PID, thermocouple, and fan. Housing the PID in the box sold by them.

It's not for everyone, and really, most people are perfectly happy controlling their fire with ball valves and such, and that's fine too. I just like to tinker with things like this. It's half the fun. YMMV Very Happy

Cheers!
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03 10 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hugh_Jass wrote:
Yes, There's a manual on line associated with the controller. It includes examples and diagrams. It's really quite good.
Cheers!


Studying these it looks like I still need a 12DC power supply to for the fan. It appears the output just completes the loop but doesn't have any power. That must be what that additional power supply was for in the first diagram...

Edited to add... I think I'll look through my box of old black box pwr supplies to see if I have one around 12V. If so then I can rip the board out of it and run the wires to the AC and that should solve the DC problem...
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Hugh_Jass
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03 10 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm wrote:
Hugh_Jass wrote:
Yes, There's a manual on line associated with the controller. It includes examples and diagrams. It's really quite good.
Cheers!


Studying these it looks like I still need a 12DC power supply to for the fan. It appears the output just completes the loop but doesn't have any power. That must be what that additional power supply was for in the first diagram...

Edited to add... I think I'll look through my box of old black box pwr supplies to see if I have one around 12V. If so then I can rip the board out of it and run the wires to the AC and that should solve the DC problem...


Check out pg. 5 figure 10.3

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362B%20instruction%201.0.pdf

That diagram looks as if it's intended to power on/off a small 12v fan.

Oh, that's for this controller. Sorry

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=132
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Soapm
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04 10 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hugh_Jass wrote:
Check out pg. 5 figure 10.3

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362B%20instruction%201.0.pdf

That diagram looks as if it's intended to power on/off a small 12v fan.

Oh, that's for this controller. Sorry

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=132


Not sure but that looks like input voltage to me. Specification 2 on page 1 shows two outputs, 240VAC and 8VDC (SSR). That is why these confuse me, it's hard for me to picture exactly what they do and what the difference is between models...
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Hugh_Jass
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04 10 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soapm wrote:
Hugh_Jass wrote:
Check out pg. 5 figure 10.3

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362B%20instruction%201.0.pdf

That diagram looks as if it's intended to power on/off a small 12v fan.

Oh, that's for this controller. Sorry

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=132


Not sure but that looks like input voltage to me. Specification 2 on page 1 shows two outputs, 240VAC and 8VDC (SSR). That is why these confuse me, it's hard
for me to picture exactly what they do and what the difference is between models...


Yea....I'm a bit confused too. Here's a cut/paste from 10.3

Quote:
A B BQ smoker needs to be controlled at 200F. Power source is
12VDC. K type thermocouple is used as the temperature sensor. The system
consists of a 12VDC fan, a K type thermocouple.


I read that as being able to use a 12vdc fan.

I'm going to kick Auber an e-mail asking for some clarity. Stay tuned.
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Hugh_Jass
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04 10 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hugh_Jass wrote:
Soapm wrote:
Hugh_Jass wrote:
Check out pg. 5 figure 10.3

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362B%20instruction%201.0.pdf

That diagram looks as if it's intended to power on/off a small 12v fan.

Oh, that's for this controller. Sorry

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=132


Not sure but that looks like input voltage to me. Specification 2 on page 1 shows two outputs, 240VAC and 8VDC (SSR). That is why these confuse me, it's hard
for me to picture exactly what they do and what the difference is between models...


Yea....I'm a bit confused too. Here's a cut/paste from 10.3

Quote:
A B BQ smoker needs to be controlled at 200F. Power source is
12VDC. K type thermocouple is used as the temperature sensor. The system
consists of a 12VDC fan, a K type thermocouple.


I read that as being able to use a 12vdc fan.

I'm going to kick Auber an e-mail asking for some clarity. Stay tuned.


Friday night 5:30 and an answer in 10 minutes.

My question to them:

Quote:
Question regarding PID controller 2362b

The indicated output voltage for the relay is "Relay contact: 3A at 240 VAC,
SSR: 10VDC, 40 mA"

In the manual, section 10.3 states, "A B BQ smoker needs to be controlled at
200F. Power source is
12VDC. K type thermocouple is used as the temperature sensor. The system
consists of a 12VDC fan, a K type thermocouple."

Am I able to control a 12vdc fan directly from j2? Help. I'm a bit
confused.

Thanks in advance


Their answer:

Quote:
SSR: 10VDC, 40 mA" is for terminal 6 and 7.
You can use J2 to control the fan.
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bullka
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04 10 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been following this thread for a while and I'm excited about getting ready to build my PID.
I have a few questions
If I use a 115VAC fan like this, http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=16-1021&catname=electric (is this a good fan to use?)
instead of a 12V fan, then I assume I do not need the power supply and I hook the fan straight to the temperature controller such as the original controller that was posted?
http://www.lightobject.com/0-999F-Fahrenheit-Temperature-Controller-P139.aspx
How do I wire up this configuration?

Do you think I need more than one fan on my size smoker?
I would not think so because it takes such a small amount of air to keep it at 225 degrees with the way its designed now.
I barely crack the door and it gets more than enough.
I would like to use just one fan if possible because I don't want another one sticking out the other side.
Here is my smoker. http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44253&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

Does anyone recommend adding anything to the end of the thermocouple that goes in the smoker to monitor temperature?
Or does the threaded end read the temps just fine?

Also, how would I add an alarm and does anyone have a recommendation on what type of alarm to use?
I would like it to be fairly loud so I can hear it inside when I need to put more wood on the fire when the temp gets too low, but also a small enough alarm to fit in the PVC box. (if possible)
Has anyone used an alarm on their setup and think it's a valuable thing to add?

Thanks for the help, I will post pics when finished!
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killswitch505
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04 10 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bullka wrote:
I have been following this thread for a while and I'm excited about getting ready to build my PID.
I have a few questions
If I use a 115VAC fan like this, http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=16-1021&catname=electric (is this a good fan to use?)
That fan will do nicely it might even be too much

instead of a 12V fan, then I assume I do not need the power supply and I hook the fan straight to the temperature controller such as the original controller that was posted?
no you would not need the power supply. yes i believe that you can hook it up that way just make sure your controller has a built in SSR you will have to look at the cut sheet and make sure. also you will need to make a change on the fan jack i would not use an audio jack for this

http://www.lightobject.com/0-999F-Fahrenheit-Temperature-Controller-P139.aspx

How do I wire up this configuration?
send me a PM and i will explain this with a pic. each terminal is numbered and i can draw you a diagram

Do you think I need more than one fan on my size smoker?
I would not think so because it takes such a small amount of air to keep it at 225 degrees with the way its designed now.
I barely crack the door and it gets more than enough.
I would like to use just one fan if possible because I don't want another one sticking out the other side.
Here is my smoker. http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44253&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

Man i think 25 cfm would be more then enough. may even be to much. with that much pushing you may have to slow it down some we can cross that road later on its an easy fix

Does anyone recommend adding anything to the end of the thermocouple that goes in the smoker to monitor temperature?
Or does the threaded end read the temps just fine?

the ring would do just fine keep in mind you can use any type K thermocouple you want (i went with the cheapest Shocked) look around the site a little and see if you find a better fit for your application

Also, how would I add an alarm and does anyone have a recommendation on what type of alarm to use?

one of my guys used a little piezo style alarm on his controller (not very loud) you will hook it up on the alarm relay terminals

I would like it to be fairly loud so I can hear it inside when I need to put more wood on the fire when the temp gets too low, but also a small enough alarm to fit in the PVC box. (if possible)

IDK you may just have to look around a little. but on my friends build I had to mount it on the out side of the box

Has anyone used an alarm on their setup and think it's a valuable thing to add?

Sorry man i dont use one. But once you get to know your cooker better you will know about how long she will burn on a load (i know its a new cooker) but an alarm would be a great addition.
Thanks for the help, I will post pics when finished!


please man i think that would be Awsome!!

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evil16v
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08 10 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

killswitch505 wrote:
bullka wrote:
I have been following this thread for a while and I'm excited about getting ready to build my PID.
I have a few questions
If I use a 115VAC fan like this, http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=16-1021&catname=electric (is this a good fan to use?)
That fan will do nicely it might even be too much

instead of a 12V fan, then I assume I do not need the power supply and I hook the fan straight to the temperature controller such as the original controller that was posted?
no you would not need the power supply. yes i believe that you can hook it up that way just make sure your controller has a built in SSR you will have to look at the cut sheet and make sure. also you will need to make a change on the fan jack i would not use an audio jack for this

http://www.lightobject.com/0-999F-Fahrenheit-Temperature-Controller-P139.aspx

How do I wire up this configuration?
send me a PM and i will explain this with a pic. each terminal is numbered and i can draw you a diagram

Do you think I need more than one fan on my size smoker?
I would not think so because it takes such a small amount of air to keep it at 225 degrees with the way its designed now.
I barely crack the door and it gets more than enough.
I would like to use just one fan if possible because I don't want another one sticking out the other side.
Here is my smoker. http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44253&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

Man i think 25 cfm would be more then enough. may even be to much. with that much pushing you may have to slow it down some we can cross that road later on its an easy fix

Does anyone recommend adding anything to the end of the thermocouple that goes in the smoker to monitor temperature?
Or does the threaded end read the temps just fine?

the ring would do just fine keep in mind you can use any type K thermocouple you want (i went with the cheapest Shocked) look around the site a little and see if you find a better fit for your application

Also, how would I add an alarm and does anyone have a recommendation on what type of alarm to use?

one of my guys used a little piezo style alarm on his controller (not very loud) you will hook it up on the alarm relay terminals

I would like it to be fairly loud so I can hear it inside when I need to put more wood on the fire when the temp gets too low, but also a small enough alarm to fit in the PVC box. (if possible)

IDK you may just have to look around a little. but on my friends build I had to mount it on the out side of the box

Has anyone used an alarm on their setup and think it's a valuable thing to add?

Sorry man i dont use one. But once you get to know your cooker better you will know about how long she will burn on a load (i know its a new cooker) but an alarm would be a great addition.
Thanks for the help, I will post pics when finished!


please man i think that would be Awsome!!


yes.. it is too much fan. I bough that exact fan. and I am just blowing the heat out on a 115 gallon build. literally. I think need to aim it differently too. the is nice though. if you would n't mind killswitch.... visit the thread in my signature.... I am going to be asking about some problems i have with this in that thread (It has all the pictures of the cooker).
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ske1eter



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12 10 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for putting this together, killswitch!
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killswitch505
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12 10 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ske1eter wrote:
Thanks for putting this together, killswitch!

thanks for checking it out Very Happy if you build one or something like it post the pics!!!!!!!
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ske1eter



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13 10 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

killswitch505 wrote:
ske1eter wrote:
Thanks for putting this together, killswitch!

thanks for checking it out Very Happy if you build one or something like it post the pics!!!!!!!


I'll try to remember to do so.

My plan is to use the 12v. PID version, powered selectively by a 120 -> 12v power supply, or straight 12V DC from a battery. I might also add a low power 12 v output for some extraneous device.

Woowhoo, this is kinda' fun once you get started thinking about building one! Laughing
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VictoryRay
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20 10 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys. I built the controller, and it didn't burn up when I plugged it in!! I don't know if I have an issue or not, but the fan doesn't seen to be running very fast. It won't hardly keep the UDS at 200deg. I used the right fan an all but it just doesn't seem right.

Any ideas?? I wouldn't think I would need two fans for this cooker.

Thanks.
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killswitch505
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21 10 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VictoryRay wrote:
Hey guys. I built the controller, and it didn't burn up when I plugged it in!! I don't know if I have an issue or not, but the fan doesn't seen to be running very fast. It won't hardly keep the UDS at 200deg. I used the right fan an all but it just doesn't seem right.

Any ideas?? I wouldn't think I would need two fans for this cooker.

Thanks.


two things how many CFM is the fan and how many volts are you getting at the fan??
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brunski



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02 10 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about using one of these acryllic boxes:
http://www.amazon.com/HomeAndWine-com-6050-Storage-Containables-Acrylic/dp/B000NE9VJE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b

it's cheaper and also used with a different project for a sous-vide machine: http://seattlefoodgeek.com/2010/02/diy-sous-vide-heating-immersion-circulator-for-about-75/comment-page-8/

BTW this is my 1st post here - nice gadget you're building!!! this is most definetly my next project.
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killswitch505
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02 10 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DUDE!!!!! the clear box is way cool Very Happy there are a couple guys using ammo boxes its way cool thinking out side the box for a box Shocked
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