Newbie with a fridge conversion project

GonHuntin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 8

I was given a small stainless undercounter commercial fridge and am in the process of building an electric smoker. I intend to rob the burner and oven controls from an electric range to use for heat and build a wood pan. My question, this fridge has hard foam insulation and I was wondering if anyone has experience with this product in a smoker application??? Specifically, I am concerned with the foam "gassing off" when heat is applied (don't want to kill anybody!) and, I wonder if the foam can take the heat without catching on fire or melting??? I also wonder if the door gasket will take the heat??

I have already placed a hotplate in the fridge and had the internal temp to 225 without any visable problems.

My other option is to buy a Smokin Tex or Cookshack and use the little fridge as a stand and storage area????

PalmettoCookers · Posted: Feb 09 2006 Post subject:

I would contact the refrigerator manufacturer and ask them about their foam and see if they can provide anything..(like an MSDS) They should have an engineering department that will know all about the materials used in the manufacturing process.

But if it was me I wouldn't risk it. It would be better to pull it out and replace with fire-proof insulation. Wink

Thomas P. · BBQ Pro Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 596 Location: Texas

FYI, MSDS = Material Data Safety Sheets

I've never done or even personally seen a frig conversion, but I do remember reading a post from someone knowledgable on the subject saying that this can ONLY be done on older generation friges. I remember him saying that anything you can buy retail today would not work safely.

Bud, not trying to be a kill-joy, but I would seek much more knowledge before you blow something up Twisted Evil

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PalmettoCookers · Posted: Feb 09 2006 Post subject:

Switch Data and Safety (Material Safety and Data Sheets)

Sorry for not explaining better. And Thomas makes an excellent point...Don't blow yourself up!

GonHuntin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 8

I'm very familiar with MSDS sheets.......and I'm smart enough not to blow myself up......heck, I've even been known to safely operate a torch, grinder and welder...... Very Happy

I think the reason you can't build on a modern household fridge is because the interiors are PLASTIC.......this one is stainless with aluminum interior.

Tony · Posted: Feb 09 2006 Post subject: Fridge Conversion

Okay...
#1-If the unit is Stainless/Aluminum inside...You Win!

#2-Do yourself a BIG favor...because you have the beginnings of a great smoker(and yes,electric is good...we'll talk about that later) just "gut" the thing by removing the inner cabinetry,and while you are there,take a look around the inside to be sure you want this thing to cook food for you...don't get paranoid...just do it!
#3-Remove any and all insulation/foam/ or whatever else might be in there,replace with R-11 to R-18 fiberglass insulation..bare is okay,foil faced is another matter..don't worry about the door seal now,it can be replaced later.
#4-I speak from experience about fridge/conversions...outa' time now...stay in touch!

Best Regards, Tony

sledgehammer03 · Posted: Feb 09 2006 Post subject:

Tony Knows what he is talking about. As far as I he da man when it comes to this project. Check out page 3 here http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2316&start=40

Party!!!!

Tony · Posted: Feb 10 2006 Post subject: Newbie with a fridge conversion project

Hey Guy...Try to get back to us with some pics of your unit-inside as well as out! Don't get discouraged by "Nay-Sayers"!
Properly modified Fridge/Freezer conversions with all metal interiors and insulated with NEW fiberglass inner-wall insulation exhibit
thermal characteristics that cannot be paralleled by stick burners.
Which,by the way,I own several of and still use.
My fridge is natural gas fired with provisions for LP switchover...
However...Electric is a Natural! Please get back to us soon,lots to follow up on!

Best Regards,Tony

GonHuntin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 8

I'll see if I can shoot some photos tomorrow.....already built rack holders out of aluminum angle and have racks in place......I looked at it again today and I'm not sure there is any way to remove the foam insulation. This is a small under cabinet commercial fridge.....about 1/4 larger than a Smokin Tex home unit......looks like the sides are built around the foam core, but I'll have to do more investigating before I can say for certain. Even if I can remove the foam, I'm not sure there is enough space between the inside and outside walls to insulate effectively with fiberglass......what I need is some "K-wool" ceramic fiber insulation, but I don't know where to find it........

My plan is/was to rob parts off a kitchen range.....I figured I could use one of the large top burners for a heating element.....and use the oven thermocouple and rheostat to regulate the temp.......

Tony · Posted: Feb 10 2006 Post subject:

Gonhuntin:
It's obvious you have a good handle on where you want to go with this.You are correct in stating that a unit with a plastic interior is the limiting factor in building a cooker of this type.
If the inner wall is completely sealed and isolated from the cooking chamber,then I wouldn't be concerned about the existing insulation.Be sure that you have a means to introduce fresh air into the cooking chamber and an exhaust stack of some type...both should have adjustable capabilities.
McMaster-carr is a mail order catalog supply house,and they sell to the public.If they don't have the insulation you are looking for,it ain't made!
I'll get back to you in a bit on the heating elements and controls later. Have Fun!
Best Regards, Tony

Tony · Posted: Feb 10 2006 Post subject:

GonHuntin:
About the heating element(s). A large stove top burner may be TOO large for your application.These elements are rated in what is known as Watt density per square inch. Even though you intend to install a variable controller,it may just be to intense for your application.
Think about the bake or broiling element from the stove oven chamber instead..I think it would suit your purposes much better,and you can use the thermo-couple and the controller that came with the bake/broil element.
Stay with it Guy,It's gonna' be a killer cooker!
Best Regards, Tony

p.s. Now ya' gotta' think about how you're gonna' get some SMOKE inta' that thing!

PalmettoCookers · Posted: Feb 10 2006 Post subject:

I wouldn't call myself a naysayer, just an professional in the environmental health and safety field. I hope it does work out, but my job makes me ask if it is safe first...then begin whatever it is your attempting.

As expensive as most of the good smokers appear to be..I will be looking out for just such a metal-lined fridge myself! Wink

GonHuntin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 8

Tony

I have a cheap 800 watt hotplate in it and can't get the temp above 225 on a warm day.......that's why I thought the large range burner would work. I thought about using the oven element, but there is not enough room in the bottom of the fridge because of the inset area where the compressor and evaporator unit were located (maybe you can see it in the photo)......when I used the hotplate, I set a small cast iron skillet on it and put the wood in the skillet.......I used foil for a "lid" and poked holes in it so the smoke could escape but any flame was controlled. As far as ventilation goes, there is a 1" hole at the bottom of the back and a 1" hole at the top of the back......figured that might be enough to start since that is how the cookshack and smokin-tex look to be made???

I spoke with my brother about using the oven thermocouple and rheostat to control a top surface burner.......he works with controllers all the time and he says it will work........

As you can probably tell from the photo, I have used the unit a couple of times but I'm not satisfied with the hot plate......it doesn't generate enough smoke or heat.

I have a propane burner I could use, but really wanted an electric heat source so I can use a thermocouple and rheostat to regulate the temp.

What did you use for a door seal??

Mark

Tony · Posted: Feb 11 2006 Post subject:

Hi GonHuntin!
Hey...No problem with that stove-top element!By all means,use it ,it'll work just fine!
As far as a temperature controller...you can use what you call a "Rheostat", more commonly known as a "Variac" which in actuallity is an Alternating Current,Variable Voltage Transformer.Or You can stick with the controller that was originally hooked up to the stove -top element.
These are generally "Proportionate" type controllers which vary the voltage to the element via a percentage factor.I don't mean to get over -kill on the technical end,but the stove-top controller will do the job just fine!
Door Seal:Hop on your favorite search engine and look up "McMaster_Carr""Supply...You can use Woven,high temp oven door gasket(same type as on household oven) and pop-rivet it on or R.T.V. it on. R.T.V.=High -Temp Silicone
I used high-temp silicone rubber bulb type seal...$$$$$

I'll get back to ya' in a while...don't want to time out...Again!

Best Regards,Tony

GonHuntin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 8

Tony

I was planning to use the controller and thermocouple from an oven so that it would keep a constant temp....would sure be nice to start it in the morning and walk away until supper.....figured I could use the stove top burner in place of the oven element.......but, if you have a better idea.......I'm listening!

Tony · Posted: Feb 11 2006 Post subject:

GonHuntin:
Maybe not a better idea...Jus' I been around the"Horn" a few times,Yuh' know?
Anyhow,Your logic prevails here,and the plan is a good one.

However,just be sure that the oven controller is capable of handling the load of the stove top burner.I'm going to check some electrical wiring diagrams on line and get back to Ya'.
Those electical stoves are all pretty typical,I just want to check the wattages and wiring configurations.

Hey...I didn't spend 42 years in electronic manufacturing fer' nuthin'!
I still think ya'll need a means to control your air input/draft and exhaust...that's a whole 'nother story.

Did ya' check McMaster-Carr?
I neglected to tell Ya' that they have an on-line catalog and ship same day.
Stay in Touch! Best Regards, Tony

Tony · Posted: Feb 11 2006 Post subject:

GonHuntin:
Did some checking and I knew that there might be some complications.(Always are with Home Brew,Right?)

Anyhow,it's nothing some intelligent(?) engineering can't solve!
LOL!
First...You do realize that these electric "Ranges" are wired for 208-230-240 Volts A.C. Correct?
Do You intend on using 230 volts? Wiring sizes and current carrying capacities are a big issue here.
To make things simple: Check the wattage/voltage ratings of ALL-and I do mean ALL the electrical components you intend to use in yer' rig...NO room fer' guesswork here.
Get back to the Forum when Ya' can and I(of for that matter,any of our barbeque bretheren who are interested in this project and are electrically competent) will walk ya' through the steps.
Hey...if Ya'll want ta' load yer' cooker and walk away without a worry ,do this!
Later,Guy!

Best Regards,Tony

BBQMAN · Posted: Feb 11 2006 Post subject:

If your fridge has styrofoam insulation (and it probably does) It needs to be removed. Mad

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GonHuntin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 8

Tony

Not planning to use 230v......planning to use 110......according to my brother.....it will work. Guess I'd better explain.....my brother is a maintainance tech for a large tire manufacturer......he deals with electronics, down to the component level, every day......according to him, ranges "split" the voltage comming in and the top burners run on 110......even if the controler was made to handle 230, he says the controller "doesn't care" if the voltage is 110............he says the oven controls can be used with the top burner with no problem.....if he is wrong.....NOW is the time to tell me!!

BBQman.......why does the foam need to be removed?? I've had the interior temp over 200 (up to 225) for several hours and had no problem........I wish I could get a piece of it out and see what kinds of temps it can take!

Here's the bottom line.......so far I have very little cash into this project......but if I have to buy ceramic insulation and new components to build the heat source and controller......I'll probably just buy a Smokin Tex or a CookShack and be done with it.......if that happens, the fridge will become a stand for the new unit and I can store stuff inside it.

PS: did you guys notice my "pit" behind the fridge in the photo??? It was here when I bought the house and I have made some pretty good "Q" on it! The rock work is coming apart though and I don't think it's worth rebuilding...it really wasn't done right to begin with......so.....I have a 120 gallon compressed air tank that is waiting to become a new cooker one of these days! Very Happy

BBQMAN · Posted: Feb 11 2006 Post subject:

Because if it is not rated to take heat, over time it will break down. The by products as you guessed earlier will be the plastisizers outgassing. If styrofoam was good for insulating heat applications, why dont they use it in ovens?

I'm sure Alien can give you a more technical description, but that about sums it up.
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"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005.