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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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 Posted: Jun 12 2008 Post subject: |
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This is competition BBQ and not commercial food application. You have one maybe two bits to impress a judge as to the flavours you want to put forth. The average competition rack of ribs is not what you would cook in your backyard. We do strive to create the "wow factor" to separate our entry from the others. Some time we get it right and others..
In my experience, chefs don't know much about BBQ with no disrespect to any one who is a chef... Harry, I am not kickin at ya dude, ya know I love ya like a brother. 
I work with a papered chef who has worked over 20 years in the industry.. He don't know squat about real BBQ let along competition Q. He is as excited about learning about BBQ from me as I am about learning the finer points of preparation and presentation from him, we have a wonderful relationship going.
Anyways, it is a good thing to look at where you are competing and if there is a huge cross section of church goers... Leave out the bourbon from the sauce and glaze.  Not that there is any thing wrong with church goers...
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Chargriller Akorn
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SmokinOkie
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 2078
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| Posted: Jun 12 2008 Post subject: |
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Sorry to hear that Roxy, most of us have been there, turing in something that won before.
Judging is so subjective, don't sweat it, unless it happens in 3 or 4 contests.
We did have weird scores once and what it turned out to be is that part of the rack had bad pork. One end just had some bad meat, the other end I tasted didn't. We went back after seeing our scores and hearing a rumor about "bad ribs".
We now test both ends. And no, the pork didn't smell bad before we cooked it, or after  |
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Robbie
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Little Rock/Pine Bluff,Arkansas
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| Posted: Jun 13 2008 Post subject: |
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| I will agree that most chefs don't know squat about BBQ but I was relaying information from a chef with a spice mixing company that mixes spices and sauces for at least one major player in the BBQ industry in addition to spice rubs of his own. There are many Championship teams using commercially available sauces along with commercially available rubs. Their key to winning I believe is in their presentation and preparation. I have rarely had my socks knocked off by flavor unless it was bad or off the wall. I did a taste test at a BBQ party of 12 sauces. These included Championship winners from several national contests, sauces prepared by me, and sauces from the grocery shelf. Believe it or not Kraft , Sweet Baby Ray, Head Country finished at the top. Unfortunatly mine was middle of the road. Good luck in the future |
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barnburner180
BBQ Super Fan
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 491
Location: Kansas City, MO
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| Posted: Jun 13 2008 Post subject: |
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| Robbie wrote: | | Their key to winning I believe is in their presentation and preparation. |
As for KCBS scoring, presentation does not count nearly as heavily as taste and texture, so presentation will not give you the grand champion, taste and texture will.
| Quote: | | I have rarely had my socks knocked off by flavor unless it was bad or off the wall. |
You must not have judged too many KCBS contests before! Each event I judge, I am amazed at how someone did something with one of the four categories. It's simply top-tier BBQ hands down. |
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Robbie
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Little Rock/Pine Bluff,Arkansas
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| Posted: Jun 14 2008 Post subject: |
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| Barnburner- The point I was trying to make is presentation and preparation meaning how it looks and how well it is prepared or cooked will have an initial greater impact on the judge than taste. If it looks bad or it is tough or mushy or rubbery all of these factors will have an effect on taste. I have rarely heard a judge exclaim that they thought a particular entry was outstanding. However I have heard they thought it was bad. Your comment about how many contests I have judged should be irrelavant. There are many judges judgeing many contests for the first time and these judges scores and opinions count just as much a Master Judge on the score card. Taste is so highly subjective. People liking different flavors. I still believe it is safer to choose a sauce that is well accepted. |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Jun 14 2008 Post subject: |
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Robbie:
No disrespect but if wha you are saying was true than every top winning team would be using Kraft or Sweet Baby Rays.. and some how I just dont think that is the case.
I think you got to step outside the box with flavour or you are no different than the other 5 ribs the judge is tasting. In Canada, flavour is 50% of the total score and as I found out last weekend, they did not care for my flavour. What that means is any ones guess.
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Chargriller Akorn
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Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
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lantern
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 2001
Location: Marion,NC
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| Posted: Jun 14 2008 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | Robbie:
I think you got to step outside the box with flavour or you are no different than the other 5 ribs the judge is tasting. In Canada, flavour is 50% of the total score and as I found out last weekend, they did not care for my flavour. What that means is any ones guess. |
I guess it means you would have been better off tasting like those other 5 guy's ribs.
Just jokin' with ya Rox. I'm with ya on this one. Gotta have something that's YOURS. Can't do that by following the same flavor path everyone else takes.  |
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Robbie
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Little Rock/Pine Bluff,Arkansas
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| Posted: Jun 15 2008 Post subject: |
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Roxy-- In your original thread I assumed you thought the reason you did poorly was because the judges didn't care for your glaze at this contest when in previous contests using your glaze your scores were at the top.
The point I have been trying to make is that there are other factors to be considered ie presentation and preparation ( tenderness and texture). If you scored at the top in these areas then of course the fault is the judges didn't care for the flavor that day. My findings that ordinary people liked Kraft and SBR as well as those other Championship sauces was suprising but not unexpected. Then again the glaze is not the only contributing factor to taste. The ribs themself may have had an off flavor or maybe the rub was not distributed the same. Who knows? Better luck next time! |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Jun 15 2008 Post subject: |
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| Robbie wrote: | Roxy-- In your original thread I assumed you thought the reason you did poorly was because the judges didn't care for your glaze at this contest when in previous contests using your glaze your scores were at the top.
The point I have been trying to make is that there are other factors to be considered ie presentation and preparation ( tenderness and texture). If you scored at the top in these areas then of course the fault is the judges didn't care for the flavor that day. My findings that ordinary people liked Kraft and SBR as well as those other Championship sauces was suprising but not unexpected. Then again the glaze is not the only contributing factor to taste. The ribs themself may have had an off flavor or maybe the rub was not distributed the same. Who knows? Better luck next time! |
Your right Robbie, three of use tried the product when it was going in the box and we all thought it was pretty good.
Presentation and tenderness scores were up where they should be.. Next year, at this venue, we will be sure to not make the same mistake again..
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Chargriller Akorn
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Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
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HoocheeQue
Newbie
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 93
Location: Valley, Alabama
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| Posted: Jun 16 2008 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | Robbie:
I think you got to step outside the box with flavour or you are no different than the other 5 ribs the judge is tasting. |
In my experience, "outside the box" is NOT where you want to be taste-wise. Remember, you have to have a lot of flavor, but that flavor needs to be somewhere in the middle of the road. One of the best cooks in the country told me a while back that when it comes to taste, it's more about trying not to upset the judges than it is about trying to Wow them. The six people at the table all have a mental picture of what bbq should taste like, and if you get too far away from that, you're really rolling the dice.
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Smokin' on the Hooch! |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Jun 17 2008 Post subject: |
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| HoocheeQue wrote: | | roxy wrote: | Robbie:
I think you got to step outside the box with flavour or you are no different than the other 5 ribs the judge is tasting. |
In my experience, "outside the box" is NOT where you want to be taste-wise. Remember, you have to have a lot of flavor, but that flavor needs to be somewhere in the middle of the road. One of the best cooks in the country told me a while back that when it comes to taste, it's more about trying not to upset the judges than it is about trying to Wow them. The six people at the table all have a mental picture of what bbq should taste like, and if you get too far away from that, you're really rolling the dice. |
Not up here they don't, there are many and I mean a lot of our judge pool who have never tasted "real" BBQ before. They are excited about judging and thank goodness for them wanting to take the time to judge but most have no clue as to the fact that there are even regional differences to what we know as BBQ To them BBQ is a grilled steak, hamburgers or hotdogs done on a gasser. This last comp I talked to a judge after the event who admitted she had no idea what BBQ was all about and did not know what a smokering was until the morning of the comp.
If you are not willing to step outside of what every one else is doing how do you hope to stand out..?? Some times it works and some times it don't... As I found out first hand.
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Chargriller Akorn
WSM
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Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
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arbyman
Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Jun 22 2008 Post subject: Roxy |
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| I have used your "Roxy's Rib Glaze" for the last year in competitions down South (Alabama, Tennesse) and it has been a big hit. Thanks , And I really enjoy your posts. |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Jun 22 2008 Post subject: |
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Wish it was up here... 
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Chargriller Akorn
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Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
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Adrienne
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Jun 26 2008 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | | Anyways, it is a good thing to look at where you are competing and if there is a huge cross section of church goers... Leave out the bourbon from the sauce and glaze. Not that there is any thing wrong with church goers... |
Living ten minutes, or so, from the site of the competition about which you speak, I am forced to respond to your comments that the majority of the folks who live in Paris are tied in some fashion to the church. I would hazard a guess that a cross section of the residents would not show a higher majority of church goers, than are evident in most communities in Southern Ontario.
And in reference to your other statements about Kraft or SBR sauce, you'd be surprised at how many of the current competitors use a doctored up version of one or the other of these sauces - to a winning effect. Another tidbit - last year's stuff often doesn't work this year. That's why the grand champ changes
See ya in Barrie! |
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G's BBQ
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1641
Location: NV
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| Posted: Jun 26 2008 Post subject: |
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Well Roxy, sorry to hear that. But Hell we know how fickle contests can be dont we
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California State Grand Champion-Shake,Rattle & Smoke-July 2007
American Royal Invitational 2007-11th place Ribbon Brisket
2nd Place BBQ Sauce-Best On The Mountain Rib Cook-Off-Horizon Casino, South Lake Tahoe-May 2008 |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Jun 26 2008 Post subject: |
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| Adrienne wrote: | | roxy wrote: | | Anyways, it is a good thing to look at where you are competing and if there is a huge cross section of church goers... Leave out the bourbon from the sauce and glaze. Not that there is any thing wrong with church goers... |
Living ten minutes, or so, from the site of the competition about which you speak, I am forced to respond to your comments that the majority of the folks who live in Paris are tied in some fashion to the church. I would hazard a guess that a cross section of the residents would not show a higher majority of church goers, than are evident in most communities in Southern Ontario.
And in reference to your other statements about Kraft or SBR sauce, you'd be surprised at how many of the current competitors use a doctored up version of one or the other of these sauces - to a winning effect. Another tidbit - last year's stuff often doesn't work this year. That's why the grand champ changes
See ya in Barrie! |
Hey darlin.. I was only responding to the number of straw hats I saw coming out of the judges area. To go from top 3 scores to a DAL is a hard thing to digest. I guess it is a long way back down to earth.
Look forward to seeing you in Barrie and maybe you will have time to visit more than ya did in Paris.. I know both Randy and I think the world of ya..
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Chargriller Akorn
WSM
LIAR #100
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Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Jun 26 2008 Post subject: |
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| GordonsBackyardBBQ wrote: | | Well Roxy, sorry to hear that. But Hell we know how fickle contests can be dont we |
Aint that the truth Gordon.. But the most important thing is we both have had the chance to look down upon the world from that mountain top behind the distillery, and that is priceless...
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Chargriller Akorn
WSM
LIAR #100
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Do not rely on a rabbits foot for luck, it did not work out too well for the rabbit... |
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G's BBQ
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1641
Location: NV
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| Posted: Jun 26 2008 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | | GordonsBackyardBBQ wrote: | | Well Roxy, sorry to hear that. But Hell we know how fickle contests can be dont we |
Aint that the truth Gordon.. But the most important thing is we both have had the chance to look down upon the world from that mountain top behind the distillery, and that is priceless... |
_________________
California State Grand Champion-Shake,Rattle & Smoke-July 2007
American Royal Invitational 2007-11th place Ribbon Brisket
2nd Place BBQ Sauce-Best On The Mountain Rib Cook-Off-Horizon Casino, South Lake Tahoe-May 2008 |
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