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Simple Thermodynamics?
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SloppyGroove
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done Alien!(no pun intended) As always,.. your wisdom is appeciated! Very Happy
ALL HAIL ALIEN! Laughing
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick that one in the front of the book too!

Great lesson with visuals, just what we need more of! Wink

Thanks.
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Sa-Mokin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen this one before, but I always enjoy a good re-run!


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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sa-Mokin wrote:
I've seen this one before, but I always enjoy a good re-run!



Have you been looking over my shoulder??? I shot this at 10am this morning! Very Happy Very Happy
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Sa-Mokin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien BBQ wrote:
Sa-Mokin wrote:
I've seen this one before, but I always enjoy a good re-run!



Have you been looking over my shoulder??? I shot this at 10am this morning! Very Happy Very Happy


No Alien, I wasn't refering to your post in particular, just the thread in general. I love it when we have the "heat rises" topic comes up. Laughing
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adolpho
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use sand, I use a clay pot holder inserted in my waterpan and then covered with foil. It's basically the same as using sand. As stated by a previous poster, once you run out of coals, the clay pot holder is holding enough radiant heat to hold temp for a good while. It can take a while before you see a severe drop in temp. As long as you're controling the temp as it goes up, then using sand is fine. I don't know any thermodynamics or science behind it, but I do have experience. I've had my WSM maintain a temp 0f 250 degrees with only one vent 1/3 open while the others were shut completely. The consistancy is amazing. One thing about water in the pan is I've had all three vents open and at most it ran around 300 degrees. I've also had all the water run out and then the temp spiked (I was asleep) and burned up a brisket. I believe the waterpan collected grease and then caught on fire. Any way. I've been very happy with the clay pot. I can sleep comfortably knowing that once the temp is set, that's it. Water or sand, it don't matter as long as you get the results you're looking for. Expirement!

As for moisture, never noticed a difference. I think the moisture comes from how well sealed the WSM is and the meat it's cooking.
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roxy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adolpho wrote:
I don't use sand, I use a clay pot holder inserted in my waterpan and then covered with foil. It's basically the same as using sand. As stated by a previous poster, once you run out of coals, the clay pot holder is holding enough radiant heat to hold temp for a good while. It can take a while before you see a severe drop in temp. As long as you're controling the temp as it goes up, then using sand is fine. I don't know any thermodynamics or science behind it, but I do have experience. I've had my WSM maintain a temp 0f 250 degrees with only one vent 1/3 open while the others were shut completely. The consistancy is amazing. One thing about water in the pan is I've had all three vents open and at most it ran around 300 degrees. I've also had all the water run out and then the temp spiked (I was asleep) and burned up a brisket. I believe the waterpan collected grease and then caught on fire. Any way. I've been very happy with the clay pot. I can sleep comfortably knowing that once the temp is set, that's it. Water or sand, it don't matter as long as you get the results you're looking for. Expirement!

As for moisture, never noticed a difference. I think the moisture comes from how well sealed the WSM is and the meat it's cooking.


How do you use the clay pot..??

Do you have any pix of it in use. This sounds like a good solution.
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adolpho
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the idea from Virtual Weber Bullet. I don't have a picture of it. For some reason, I haven't taken any que pictures in a long while, go figure.
For the WSM, get a clay pot holder that's has the number 14 on the bottom. I think that's the size it refers to.
The idea behind it is that the holder leaves a space between the bottom of the water pan and the clay holder. Who knows what the science is behind it, but it works great and the use of coals is a lot less. I think there's smaller sizes out there to try on the Pro BBQ Frontier, too.
The following link shows a picture from TVWB site. I double foil the top of the pot so it makes cleanup a snap.
http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8680069052/m/1670032205?r=7870045205#7870045205
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SloppyGroove
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A clay pot? humm...well that isn't a bad idea either.
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roxy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06 08 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adolpho wrote:
I got the idea from Virtual Weber Bullet. I don't have a picture of it. For some reason, I haven't taken any que pictures in a long while, go figure.
For the WSM, get a clay pot holder that's has the number 14 on the bottom. I think that's the size it refers to.
The idea behind it is that the holder leaves a space between the bottom of the water pan and the clay holder. Who knows what the science is behind it, but it works great and the use of coals is a lot less. I think there's smaller sizes out there to try on the Pro BBQ Frontier, too.
The following link shows a picture from TVWB site. I double foil the top of the pot so it makes cleanup a snap.
http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8680069052/m/1670032205?r=7870045205#7870045205


Excellent, that looks like it will work great.

Thanks for the link, a pic says a thousand words.
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xxfubarxx
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10 08 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would a pizza stone fit and work the same as a clay pot holder ? I don't have a bullet smoker but my brother does. Heat would rise on the outside of the stone but directly up and not directly burn the meat. So I'm guessing you'd get a convection type situation. Hot outside edges and cooler around the meat. Would the smoke get caught in the hi and low temps and circulate too ? Or would the smoker box even out temps so its close to the same temp ? Not trying to start any arguments just trying to figure out what goes on in the big black box. Wow this is getting to be a hi tech thread.
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bushlight



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10 08 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm useing a clay pot holder also.After that mess with water. This is alot better.
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kbrew
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10 08 11:44 pm    Post subject: Where can ya get one o'them things? Reply with quote

And where would you place it, or sand, or whatever in a small offset?
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kbrew
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10 08 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS- to Satch: I learnt all about smokin' at Bucknell, too-- which is why I didn't last thru freshman year....
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wittdog
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11 08 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Where can ya get one o'them things? Reply with quote

kbrew wrote:
And where would you place it, or sand, or whatever in a small offset?

Theres no need for sand in an offset because the meat isn't above the fire source...an offset works like a convection oven...
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kbrew
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11 08 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except that the temperature swings are so dramatic in an offset -- at least mine....
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wittdog
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11 08 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How big/small of an offset?
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SloppyGroove
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11 08 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
kbrew wrote:
And where would you place it, or sand, or whatever in a small offset?

Theres no need for sand in an offset because the meat isn't above the fire source...an offset works like a convection oven...


Even though the temperature swings are not as dramatic from an offset to a WSM in regards to a water pan usage (in its lack or different methods). I notice that when I put a water pan in my offset it does polish off some of the temp changes slightly. but that's just my experience. Others might have a different opinion, but its been works for me for this long so I for one am stickin' with it. Wink
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gotwood
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11 08 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything that can be used as a heat sink will curb dramatic changes in temperature in both directions
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11 08 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbrew wrote:
Except that the temperature swings are so dramatic in an offset -- at least mine....



Kbrew,
It sounds like you need a diffuser plate installed at the opening to the cooking chamber. The spikes many times are caused by fire lap, as it enters the cooking chamber. Get you a piece of flashing or carbon steel and bend it at a 45 degree angle and around the lip at the firebox end of your cooker. Then make a smaller fire. A smaller, more brisk fire (that does not enter the cooking chamber) will give you more constant heat than a big one that you have to adjust all the time.

As far as sand in an offset, unless you are cooking at below freezing, or you have a super thin metal cooker, you can not totally benefit from the thermal mass.
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