|
Pellet Cooker, glorified oven or BBQ Pit, reposted
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Pellet cooker. Glorified Oven or BBQ Pit. Repost |
| Glorified Oven |
|
30% |
[ 14 ] |
| BBQ Pit |
|
69% |
[ 32 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 46 |
|
| Author |
Message |
dabaslab
BBQ Pro
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 515
|
 Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
Pellet cookers can not be cheating. Because you know what they say... Cheaters NEVER win 
We use pellet cookers in comps and will continue to do so as long as the rules allow us to.
Dabaslab
_________________
Son Seekers BBQ Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: Re: Pellet Cooker, glorified oven or BBQ Pit, reposted |
|
|
| OddThomas wrote: | [quote="bluesman250"
How Q is cooked takes a distant backseat to how Q tastes. Great Q isn't about hard work, getting dirty, or loosing sleep. It's about understanding the cooking process and achieving the flavor and the texture you desire. If you can turn out a great product, then what difference does it make that you did it with less effort? |
Too a point i agree with you. But the art of controlling the variables is part of BBQ too. How much fuel. How much wood. How much air goes through. The amount of smoke. combingin different kids of wood and smoke. Minute variations in temp. I think when a human is the one that controls ALL of these, vs electronics, draft controlls, and pellets that control the amount of smoke, it makes a big difference. Take 10 FEC's(or other pellet oven), and 10 Klose (or other pit) pits. Take the same cut of meat, the same rub, and same injections. Put the 10 butts in 10 FEC's temp control set the same. The other 10 go in pits with target temp being the same. Use the same wood in the pit as you do for pellets. cook to the same internal temp. you will get VERY little variation in the meats cooked in the FEC's. But you will get 10 different tastes from the pits. The FEC's with a computer controlled temp, and auto-feed, will all cook almost identical. But with the pits, human controlled, you will have temp variations, differences in the amount of smoke, and different cook times.
Saying its the cook and not the cooker is BS!!. we can all make rubs, injections, brines and the like. But HOW it cooks makes a difference. If thats not the case, the would not be HUNDREDS of different cookers to choose form, ranging in price from a few hundred bucks, to tens of thousands of dollars. Saying its the cook is how lazy people justify a pellet oven. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OddThomas
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
Hi,
All you're claiming here is consistency is a bad thing, which makes little sense to me as an argument against pellet cookers. Being able to produce consistent quality Q is, for a lot of folks, the main goal. If you want to make an argument against pellet cookers, you better find an actual flaw to point out; e.g. flavor, cost, requirements, fuel, times, etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OddThomas
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| zilla wrote: | | I would personally like to see the tradition stay in the game. |
Hi,
I think tradition will persist regardless. People have been cooking indoors on modern appliances for many moons, yet the grill and smoker still holds an attraction for a lot of people; something about the fire, smoke, and flavors. I don't think we're in any danger of the average Joe pulling up with his new pellet muncher any time soon. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mds2
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 1366
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
Let me ask this, is me using my Stumps Clone cheating as well? Once I get it fired up I dont have to touch it for ten hours, and it will stay at whatever temp i want it to. And this is without a stoker or a guru or whatever.
I have no problems with pellet cookers or gas cookers or offsetsor whatever. And why dont have a problem with them? Because I have beat guys that have cooked on all of them.
The first person who replied in the thread was right on the money, it about the cook not the cooker.
Oh and last year I took second in dessert in the Nebraska state championships with a peach cobbler that i BAKED in my big offset, does that make me a cheater?
_________________
The Saucy Lads BBQ Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| OddThomas wrote: | Hi,
All you're claiming here is consistency is a bad thing, which makes little sense to me as an argument against pellet cookers. Being able to produce consistent quality Q is, for a lot of folks, the main goal. If you want to make an argument against pellet cookers, you better find an actual flaw to point out; e.g. flavor, cost, requirements, fuel, times, etc. |
Not at all. I am claiming that SKILL is a GOOD thing. anyone can set a dial, wait till the temp is up, and walk away. That takes about much talent as opening the beer i am drinking. Cooking that way takes all the skill out after the meat is preped. And i admit, i do it that way to. Sometimes, in the winter, i take a pot roast and put it in the oven. I set the dial, and wait hours. Nothing i can do while it is cooking will make a difference. The same goes for a pellet oven. Set the temp, and you are done. you cannot affect the amount of smoke. The amount of wood. The draft. It all cooks according to the setting on that 1 nice liitle dial. The only thing that affect most pellet cookers is the power going out. With out all that auto-feed and temp control, they are dead in the water. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| mds2 wrote: | Let me ask this, is me using my Stumps Clone cheating as well? Once I get it fired up I dont have to touch it for ten hours, and it will stay at whatever temp i want it to. And this is without a stoker or a guru or whatever.
I have no problems with pellet cookers or gas cookers or offsetsor whatever. And why dont have a problem with them? Because I have beat guys that have cooked on all of them.
The first person who replied in the thread was right on the money, it about the cook not the cooker.
Oh and last year I took second in dessert in the Nebraska state championships with a peach cobbler that i BAKED in my big offset, does that make me a cheater? |
I do not know the details of your stumps clone. And i never said pellet oven were cheating, i asked if they were. you can see my posts above regarding the cook vs the cooker.
Now i cannot figure out why anyone, even a traditionalist would thinking doing ANYTHING on a stiuck burner is cheating. Especially a nice tasty cobbler! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mds2
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 1366
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| bluesman250 wrote: |
I do not know the details of your stumps clone. And i never said pellet oven were cheating, i asked if they were. you can see my posts above regarding the cook vs the cooker.
Now i cannot figure out why anyone, even a traditionalist would thinking doing ANYTHING on a stiuck burner is cheating. Especially a nice tasty cobbler! |
I was asking because i was using a stick burner like an oven, and i was being facetious.
My Stumps clone is just like a stumps cooker but better.
_________________
The Saucy Lads BBQ Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| mds2 wrote: | | bluesman250 wrote: |
I do not know the details of your stumps clone. And i never said pellet oven were cheating, i asked if they were. you can see my posts above regarding the cook vs the cooker.
Now i cannot figure out why anyone, even a traditionalist would thinking doing ANYTHING on a stiuck burner is cheating. Especially a nice tasty cobbler! |
I was asking because i was using a stick burner like an oven, and i was being facetious.
My Stumps clone is just like a stumps cooker but better. |
My thought is this. If your temp and smoke are controlled by electronics, its different then using human input, human skill, and human control. If the temp variables, and amount of smoke, and draft are controlled by something other then skill, it takes away from the experience of Q, and makes it too easy. I have never said it was cheating, and i know from experience it makes good Q. Its just not the same when the pitmaster aspect of BBQ is controlled by plugging the cooker into the wall, instead of pitmaster experience and input. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Hughes
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 1182
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: Re: Pellet Cooker, glorified oven or BBQ Pit, reposted |
|
|
| bluesman250 wrote: | the art of controlling the variables is part of BBQ too. How much fuel. How much wood. How much air goes through. The amount of smoke. combingin different kids of wood and smoke. Minute variations in temp. I think when a human is the one that controls ALL of these, vs electronics, draft controlls, and pellets that control the amount of smoke, it makes a big difference. Take 10 FEC's(or other pellet oven), and 10 Klose (or other pit) pits. Take the same cut of meat, the same rub, and same injections. Put the 10 butts in 10 FEC's temp control set the same. The other 10 go in pits with target temp being the same. Use the same wood in the pit as you do for pellets. cook to the same internal temp. you will get VERY little variation in the meats cooked in the FEC's. But you will get 10 different tastes from the pits. The FEC's with a computer controlled temp, and auto-feed, will all cook almost identical. But with the pits, human controlled, you will have temp variations, differences in the amount of smoke, and different cook times.
Saying its the cook and not the cooker is BS!!. we can all make rubs, injections, brines and the like.
Saying its the cook is how lazy people justify a pellet oven. |
First of all, while you say you just want opinions, you continue to flame the fires...
I don't think you get it. If the pellet cookers were so consistent they would win every time. You don't think they have no hot spots and run perfectly every time do you?
I'd love to see what Rod Grey and Johnny Trigg would tell you...
I turn out as consistent of food on my Klose as my buddies David, Merl, and Russ do on their mini log burners. As long as you know your cooker, inconsistencies in your food are your fault, not your rig's.
Smokin' Okie has cooked with me on my Klose, I've cooked with him on his FE's. He'd be the first guy to tell you I've got a cool setup. I'll tell you the same about his.
I'm tellin' you it's the cook and not the cooker, and I am a stick burner with some "credentials", and an open mind...
Regards--Jeff
_________________
Klose 72" Mobile
Big Green Egg
Hasty Bake Legacy
Weber 22" Kettle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: Re: Pellet Cooker, glorified oven or BBQ Pit, reposted |
|
|
| Jeff Hughes wrote: | | bluesman250 wrote: | the art of controlling the variables is part of BBQ too. How much fuel. How much wood. How much air goes through. The amount of smoke. combingin different kids of wood and smoke. Minute variations in temp. I think when a human is the one that controls ALL of these, vs electronics, draft controlls, and pellets that control the amount of smoke, it makes a big difference. Take 10 FEC's(or other pellet oven), and 10 Klose (or other pit) pits. Take the same cut of meat, the same rub, and same injections. Put the 10 butts in 10 FEC's temp control set the same. The other 10 go in pits with target temp being the same. Use the same wood in the pit as you do for pellets. cook to the same internal temp. you will get VERY little variation in the meats cooked in the FEC's. But you will get 10 different tastes from the pits. The FEC's with a computer controlled temp, and auto-feed, will all cook almost identical. But with the pits, human controlled, you will have temp variations, differences in the amount of smoke, and different cook times.
Saying its the cook and not the cooker is BS!!. we can all make rubs, injections, brines and the like.
Saying its the cook is how lazy people justify a pellet oven. |
First of all, while you say you just want opinions, you continue to flame the fires...
I don't think you get it. If the pellet cookers were so consistent they would win every time. You don't think they have no hot spots and run perfectly every time do you?
I'd love to see what Rod Grey and Johnny Trigg would tell you...
I turn out as consistent of food on my Klose as my buddies David, Merl, and Russ do on their mini log burners. As long as you know your cooker, inconsistencies in your food are your fault, not your rig's.
Smokin' Okie has cooked with me on my Klose, I've cooked with him on his FE's. He'd be the first guy to tell you I've got a cool setup. I'll tell you the same about his.
I'm tellin' you it's the cook and not the cooker, and I am a stick burner with some "credentials", and an open mind...
Regards--Jeff |
Of course i do not think pellet cookers run "Perfectly" everytime. But at least i admit they remove many of the variables that other cookers have to contend with.
I do not fan the flames anymore then anyone else, and not near as much as Smokin Okie. Could it be that because i do not roll over and admit i am wrong and you are right because of your so called credentials, that you feel i am fanning the flames? You will notice that throughout ALL of my posts on the subject, i never ONCE questioned the QUALITY of the Q produced on pellet cookers. That was not the issue from the start, and it is not the issue days later.
When you cook consistent Q on your Klose (VERY NICE PIT BTW), YOU learned to control ALL of the variables. you have no dial to set. you can over smoke, undersmoke. Make the heat to high, or too low. Not use enough sticks to start with, or use to many. But you LEARNED how to do it the "right" way, and produce what i would imagine is some pretty damn good Q. And while FEC's and treagers are not robots, they do not have NEARLY the learning curve. If your temp controller is working like it should, your temp and smoke are out of your hands. you cannot decide you need more smoke, and throw another log or wood chunk on the fire. you may need to rotate the meat between the racks to avoid hot spots, but that is no where near the variables that you encounter on your Klose. thats all i was ever trying to say, right from the start. You control EVERY aspect of what goes on, and you do it with setting a dial. Unless you have a draft control that is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
Jeff, what is a "mini log burner"?
_________________
BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Hughes
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 1182
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
It's a joke, pellets are "mini logs"....
_________________
Klose 72" Mobile
Big Green Egg
Hasty Bake Legacy
Weber 22" Kettle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeff Hughes wrote: | | It's a joke, pellets are "mini logs".... |
I knew that, and yes it is! 
_________________
BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dabaslab
BBQ Pro
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 515
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
This entire discussion is very similar to saying that the new larger headed, more forgiving metal head golf clubs are cheating. Technology, innovation and engineering design has made the game of golf much easier. BUT many golfers that have purchased this new technology still can't play a decent game of golf. Its because they lack the skill not because of the equipment they are using.
Why bash and resist technology instead of enbracing it. This is just like saying if a telephone has a cord on it you are not really talking on a phone.
If we are going to keep low and slow BBQ as part of our present and future we better embrace this new technogoly. Our children and their children will most likely have no interest in digging a stupid hole in the ground and cooking meat over it. They just might take an interest in turning on a cooker and seasoning up the meat and cooking it.
I have a chargriller pro, a wsm, three drum smokers, a pull behind trailer smoker that using wood and gas, and three pellet cookers. I can cook decent barbeque on any of them.
Good grief... the last time I looked at the calendar I could have swore it said 2007.
My .02 worth,
Dabaslab
_________________
Son Seekers BBQ Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
Well, Dab, I have embraced technology. I love my Plasma TV, my modern truck, and my new computer!  The GPS I just got for my B-Day is really cool too!
I guess this is more about old school cooking vrs other methods.
Nothing wrong with either in my book!
How about this: I haul my older model Kenmore gas oven outside. Thermostat controlled heat (BTW, never had any of that red tint while cooking in it, go figure!). Then I add a pan of pellets or sawdust on top of the burner. How new fangled is that? Is it true BBQ?
But.......................I can't use it at comps because of the gas. Is that fair? Are we not embracing "new technology"?
My main sticking point is why the rules are not the same for everyone. Why are electric powered pellet ovens allowed, and my oven is not?
After all, with all this "new technology" it should be any thing goes then, right?
I think (but I'm not sure) that is what the bluesman was getting at?
_________________
BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dabaslab
BBQ Pro
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 515
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
First of all BBQ Man if you will go back and read the original post the word "competition" is not included in it anywhere.
His original post has nothing to do with what is allowed and not allowed.
Dab
_________________
Son Seekers BBQ Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OddThomas
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| bluesman250 wrote: | | And i never said pellet oven were cheating, i asked if they were. |
Hi,
You've already made that decision; long before you posted here. All you're looking for here is some sort of validation, which you're not getting (nor did you get at the BBQ forum). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mds2
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 1366
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| BBQMAN wrote: |
After all, with all this "new technology" it should be any thing goes then, right?
|
I think it should be. I dont care what other types of cookers people are using at comps.
_________________
The Saucy Lads BBQ Team |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
|
|
| mds2 wrote: | | BBQMAN wrote: |
After all, with all this "new technology" it should be any thing goes then, right?
|
I think it should be. I dont care what other types of cookers people are using at comps. |
Exactly my point!
Backyard, comps, catering, or what not. BBQ is BBQ!
_________________
BBQMAN
"I Turned A Hobby Into A Business".
Providing "IMHO" Since 2005. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Memberlist 
Usergroups
Register
Profile 
Log in to check your private messages 
Log in 
