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Pellet Cooker, glorified oven or BBQ Pit, reposted
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| Pellet cooker. Glorified Oven or BBQ Pit. Repost |
| Glorified Oven |
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| Total Votes : 46 |
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bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
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 Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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| zilla wrote: | Okie, I hear ya bro and your right.
Now far be it from me to stir a pot or add to a conversation that might escalate into a s**t storm as I have never done such a thing on a BBQ forum before  but.....
Personally I don't care what kind of cooker a guy might smoke on. Whether its a gravity feed stumps or a cabinet smoker with a charcoal basket or a pellet smoker we would still win with our heavy offset burning sticks because we are better cookers than everyone else.  
Now, I fully understand why the pellet guys are getting sick of being set upon by the other guys, especially the stick burners. Stick burners are like the cowboys of the BBQ world and the southern "dig a hole and smoke a whole pig" BBQ pit guys are the cavemen, and we do get judgmental at times... it's just not good form and I apologize for my barbarian brethren.
This original post was formed as a question though so lets answer it. Yes? No?
I think that automatic cookers of all types cause debate. The Crock pot, The bread machine, The rice cooker, The Fondue Master. The food purists alway get their panties in a bunch over stuff like this.
Look at it this way. How does the baker who does all his baking by hand and cooks in a coal fired oven that has studied bread making for years feel about bread machines? He probably thinks that it not real bread or at the very least not equal to his bread that took more overall skill to produce. I would agree with him too but the other is still bread and still has a place in the world of bread making.
If a guy takes a brisket out of the cryovac, injects it with chemicals to force it to retain moisture and adds artificial flavors, rubs it down with rub he didn't even make then throws it into an automatic smoker that feeds the fuel, regulates temps and smoke via a thermostat and fan (info from the Treager site) he goes to bed, rolls around with his ole lady for a while, then gets two 4 hour naps back to back and turns out BBQ that wins and he hasn't crossed any lines of the sanctioning body that is overseeing the competition then congratulations to that team!! Period. I could do the same thing if I want to. Right?
Is the playing field of BBQ level? No, I don't think it is, but I have made a choice to play in the sandbox with the Treager guys so it is what it is.
If and when I decide that I have had enough of Techno Que I'll collect my toys and go home to my horses and cows and play with them instead.
But for now I'll take two hours of sleep and the GC throphy and have fun talking chit to all the losers. 
Your truly, the stick burning yahoo from Texas....ZILLA
P.S. I don't really have any horses or cows. |
Zilla,
Thank you for a real, honest response that rose above the childish rants here. Its good ot know that some people are able to have a good discussion without resorting to insults and embarrassing themselves! Thank you again! |
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Lewis & Herschel
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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Location: Smyrna, TN
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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A pellet cooker uses 100% wood.
Gas, one can be very dangerous as one poster on the other forum found out recently when his exploded. In a cook off in tight quarters, some one could have been killed.
Two, gas does strange things to the hemoglobin in meat making the meat pink but not like a smoke ring.
Third, charcoal and wood is traditional in any form. Gas is not in any form. Not like George Washington went on week long excusions to eat LP Qued BBQ.
No hypocrisy there. Sounds like you are a newbie who is very uninformed about cookers.
If gassers want their own cooks they should organize them like the LP Que did this year. Heck, Restaurants and caterers should have their own cook offs with their equipment.
I do feel in general, the introduction of Gas cookers wholesale, raises the cost to compete which I hate. Gas cookers, can get very expensive.
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bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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| Lewis & Herschel wrote: | A pellet cooker uses 100% wood.
Gas, one can be very dangerous as one poster on the other forum found out recently when his exploded. In a cook off in tight quarters, some one could have been killed.
Two, gas does strange things to the hemoglobin in meat making the meat pink but not like a smoke ring.
Third, charcoal and wood is traditional in any form. Gas is not in any form. Not like George Washington went on week long excusions to eat LP Qued BBQ.
No hypocrisy there. Sounds like you are a newbie who is very uninformed about cookers.
If gassers want their own cooks they should organize them like the LP Que did this year. Heck, Restaurants and caterers should have their own cook offs with their equipment.
I do feel in general, the introduction of Gas cookers wholesale, raises the cost to compete which I hate. Gas cookers, can get very expensive. |
My point was that if you can use a pellet, made of wood, in a cooker where you set a dial, and walk away, why not gas with wood chunks for smoke? either way, plug load and smoke cookers are not pit mastery. A real pit master can use a coal or wood burner, and still walk away long enough to get a little sleep........
I have been BBQ'ing for 15 years. That longer then lots of people cooking in comps, so i am in no way a newbie. Just new to the forum. |
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Jeff Hughes
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Joined: 14 Nov 2005
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Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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| bluesman250 wrote: |
I am not trolling. I am interested in peoples opinion. I guess that too many people here, and on other boards are to concered with trophies to have a good cooker discussion. I will point out 1 fact. It is sheer HYPOCRISY to allow pellet cookers in comps, but not gas. Its embarrassing to the organizers to say one set it and forget it oven cooker is OK, and 1 is not. |
You don't know your "facts". You have an opinion.
I don't think you even understand how a pellet cooker works.
Do you think rotisserie cookers should be banned as well? What about a Guru on a Stumps, is that not set it and forget it?
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BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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| Lewis & Herschel wrote: | A pellet cooker uses 100% wood.
Gas, one can be very dangerous as one poster on the other forum found out recently when his exploded. In a cook off in tight quarters, some one could have been killed.
Two, gas does strange things to the hemoglobin in meat making the meat pink but not like a smoke ring. Third, charcoal and wood is traditional in any form. Gas is not in any form. Not like George Washington went on week long excusions to eat LP Qued BBQ.
No hypocrisy there. Sounds like you are a newbie who is very uninformed about cookers.
If gassers want their own cooks they should organize them like the LP Que did this year. Heck, Restaurants and caterers should have their own cook offs with their equipment.
I do feel in general, the introduction of Gas cookers wholesale, raises the cost to compete which I hate. Gas cookers, can get very expensive. |
I don't know of that to be true L&H? How do you support that statement?
I don't see any difference to be honest with you. Plus that, the meat never comes out any "different looking" when I cook it in my gas oven (except for the obvious lack of smoke ring)! Heat is heat. Main by-product of burning LP is water vapor.
As far as gas being dangerous, you bet it is. However, it's not any more dangerous than the average idiot driving there car down the interstate with a cell phone in one hand, and a McShizzle burger in the other...........
I also don't feel that "us' caterers need seperate comps, thats a bit condescending in my book. If I had the time (and I don't) to compete more often, I do believe My team could do very well, reagrdless of the fact that I cater for a living. The only thing that catering does is give me an edge on the experience end of things.
Let's not worry about what gas does to the meat if we are not going to worry about pumping up our brisket with FAB! 
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bluesman250
BBQ Pro
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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| SmokinOkie wrote: | | CrazyChef wrote: | Wow, SmokinOkie...
This is meant to be a FUN discussion/debate/whatever...
Don't take things so darned personal!
Good Q is good Q. No matter how it starts out, it is the end result that matters... |
If you owned a Pellet Cooker you wouldn't think it fun. Look at his choice of words, he's implying that using a Pellet Cooker is cheating.
Jeff you got it right....trolling.
But we haven't have a GOOD, all out real interesting thread, maybe this will be it ..... not |
I did not realize that asking was implying. I WAS however implying that in a traditional BBQ cooker, the about of smoke, the amount of wood or coals, the draft, the size of the wood chunks, and ther minute temp variations made an impact on the final product. All of these are removed in a pellet cooker. If thats your idea of Q, fine. But don't get uppity with me because so many people think using a pellet cooker is BS BBQ. By your reaction, i would guess you get told that alot! I was just ASKING a question. |
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bluesman250
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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| Jeff Hughes wrote: | | bluesman250 wrote: |
I am not trolling. I am interested in peoples opinion. I guess that too many people here, and on other boards are to concered with trophies to have a good cooker discussion. I will point out 1 fact. It is sheer HYPOCRISY to allow pellet cookers in comps, but not gas. Its embarrassing to the organizers to say one set it and forget it oven cooker is OK, and 1 is not. |
You don't know your "facts". You have an opinion.
I don't think you even understand how a pellet cooker works.
Do you think rotisserie cookers should be banned as well? What about a Guru on a Stumps, is that not set it and forget it? |
I have used pellet cookers before. And yes, ANYTHING that plugs in should have its own catagory in a competition. If it uses computers, electricity, or fans, any thing that plugs in, should cook in a seperate catagory for those types of cookers. Like the post above says, keep the playing field level. |
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Lewis & Herschel
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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Location: Smyrna, TN
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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1. The hemoglobin statement is backed by a class I took with a National Team. I consider the Music City Pig Pals plenty qualified to comment on it as they have rep'd Old Hickory and ABS and also own a catering business. I have also seen it on the Forum countless times.
2. The difference at a cook off, is someones carelessness could kill some one else. It will just make cook offs that much more aggravating as the Fire Department will want a say in wide spread use of LP. Wood and Charcoal can catch on fire, but it is unlikely to have an explosion.
3. I am not saying they should be separate. I am saying their is nothing wrong with them having their own. More of a Taste of ------- style comp to create good will for the local restaurant and caterers. That has nothing to do with KCBS or MIM.
4. I think you guys protest too much on Fab. You should compete more.
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Lewis & Herschel
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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After the first 20 minutes of coming up to temp, pellet cookers do not use a heating element anymore.
It is all with in the rules, there is nothing to argue there. LP is not in the rules and I hope it never becomes apart of the rules for wide spread BBQ cook offs. That said, I may go do LP Que next year my self, if they have one. I consider them a totally different category, not better or worse, just different.
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SmokinOkie
BBQ Super Pro
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 2078
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| Posted: Aug 12 2007 Post subject: |
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| bluesman250 wrote: |
But don't get uppity with me because so many people think using a pellet cooker is BS BBQ. By your reaction, i would guess you get told that alot! I was just ASKING a question. |
I'm not uppity (go find a dictionary) I'm insulted that YOU indicated it was cheating. Others, when they've posted, have expressed your opinion. You've trolled through two forums (and others?) and indicated it's cheating, so that's a little more than opinion.
Your previous post indicated you hadn't cooked on them, just ate (your term) food cooked on them, so the story changes.
Sure, you have the right to an opinion, but calling someone a cheater is insulting. That's my OPINION.
Have I heard it before, sure. and 98% of the time, the person saying it has 1) never cooked on one themselves or 2) never sampled food or 3) sampled food once or twice. Kinda silly to form an opinion on that.
Let me know next time you're cooking in a comp, I'll be happy to stop by and sample your food and give an opinion.
I actually find it funny all the Pellet Haters. I have no regrets, no problems and just find it funny you want to fill your day/posts with concerns about what constitutes BBQ.
FYI, a weber kettle and a WSM aren't PITS. |
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bluesman250
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 802
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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[quote="SmokinOkie"] | bluesman250 wrote: |
I'm not uppity (go find a dictionary) I'm insulted that YOU indicated it was cheating. Others, when they've posted, have expressed your opinion. You've trolled through two forums (and others?) and indicated it's cheating, so that's a little more than opinion.
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Please show me in original post that started this where where i implied anything? |
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roxy
BBQ All Star
Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 9331
Location: Wasaga beach, Ontario
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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My BBQ team uses a Treager big tex in competition with some excellent results. I use it to cook one of the briskets I bring as well as one of the butts. I cook the other brisket and butt on a bullet cooker and which ever is the better gets turned in. Some times its the bullet, some times its the Treager that produces the best product. I took 2nd in dessert at the Canadian Open with a cheese cake I smoked on the Treager, it was awesome..!!
We also use those cheap, crappy, SnP and Chargriller smokers to do our ribs and chicken...
Man I love cheating...
Dont mind it a bit to hear our team name called out.
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BBQMAN
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15475
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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Once again L&H, I don't find that statement to be true.
People everywhere cook with gas ovens. How do you explain that none of the meat comes out with the red tint you mention?
IMHO that is just a total myth.
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bluesman250
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Joined: 22 May 2007
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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| roxy wrote: | I took 2nd in dessert at the Canadian Open with a cheese cake I smoked on the Treager, it was awesome..!!
dont mind it a bit to hear our team name called out. |
Smoked cheesecake DOES sound awesome!! |
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BBQMAN
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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| Lewis & Herschel wrote: | After the first 20 minutes of coming up to temp, pellet cookers do not use a heating element anymore.
It is all with in the rules, there is nothing to argue there. LP is not in the rules and I hope it never becomes apart of the rules for wide spread BBQ cook offs. That said, I may go do LP Que next year my self, if they have one. I consider them a totally different category, not better or worse, just different. |
That's not true either. The rules state that the fire can be started with gas, and then must be removed. Not much different than using electric to start your fire, except that when your generator or provided outlet doesn't work, I can still use a lighter to get mine going!
As far as the danger aspect is concerned, that doesn't fly either. There were countless gas cylinders at MIM, the Big Pig jig, or any other event I have ever been at. Most RV setups use gas as well..................
I genuinely don't care what you cook on (or what you pump into your meat for that matter). Please don't ask me to buy into myth's and missconceptions. This ain't my first rodeo!
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Last edited by BBQMAN on Aug 13 2007; edited 1 time in total |
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Lewis & Herschel
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Joined: 02 Jul 2006
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Location: Smyrna, TN
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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Since it is a cook off, and since you cannot cook with gas assist. Then using an LP starter is no different than using a cigarette lighter to light your fire.
Can you cook over Gas in KCBS? I thought so.
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adolpho
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Joined: 03 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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| Jeff Hughes wrote: | ...You don't know your "facts". You have an opinion.
I don't think you even understand how a pellet cooker works....
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| Lewis & Herschel wrote: | | After the first 20 minutes of coming up to temp, pellet cookers do not use a heating element anymore... |
Once I learned how a pellet smoker worked, that's when my opinion changed about them. Once the pellets are burning the heating element is turned off, just like those competitors who start their fires with gas assist systems. People say you turn a dial to a temp and walk away. Well I look at my temp and open a vent or add a log and walk away, too. There's so much more to BBQ than the cooker: seasoning, meat monitoring, when to pull, how long to rest, how to slice/pull and presentation.
Maybe to make people happy BBQ comps should divide into categories to level out the playing field: gas cookers, electricity allowed, wood/woodsubstance only, and "open" (any type of cooker). But that would mean a headache for an organizer, so the way it is now will have to do. One thing though, here in Texas you don't see pellet cookers all that much in a competition. I believe LSBS doesn't allow it in their competitions. I've also done IBCA events as well and I've yet to see one there. And if it's non-sanctioned, chances are it could be wood burning only, no charcoal allowed. That's been my biggest reason not to plunge into a pellet smoker yet.
Maybe we're too macho in Texas....there's no maybe about it! 
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EastTennQcrew
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: Pellets |
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I attended a cooking class with John Trigger and Rod Gray. Both cooking on very different pits. One a stick burner, and one a FE100. Food was out of this world on both. Rod also talked about winning events on an offset he owns. But to say that the cooker was the cause of the great taste of the food is wrong. The preping of the meats and the rubs and sauces and the wrapping and the presentations is what makes these guys top BBQ cooks. If you swap cookers and cooks, the food would have been the same.
Some one stated ealier that it was the cook and not the cooker, they were right. Maybe comps could just start furnishing cooker to everyone so things would be even.
Blues stated that anything powered by electricity should be banned. Digital temp probes, remomte temp probes, gurus, electirc fans to blow air into fire boxes. That's a pretty big list of things.
To what extent do you roll back time. some one made the comment that off sets may have been considered cheating when they fisrt came out. Wasn't all original cooking done over the fire if it wasn't in a pit.
Maybe we should all go into chuck wagon cooking like they show on tv. And then all the equipment would have to been available in the 1890's.
RandyE
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zilla
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Joined: 09 Jul 2005
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Location: Universal City, Texas
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: |
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I have to say that this discussion only holds water with respect to comps. $$$
Me, I would actually like to see BBQ go back to the old ways. Chop our own wood, butcher the steer and lay it's hide for tanning, slaughter the pig and dip it in a boiling jacuzzi and wring the necks of the chickens we cook. Home made spice mixtures and no artificial additives to "Juice up" the dry beasts. Wood fires and loin clothes only. 
All kidding aside what will BBQ become when it takes a technological feat to win? What will us old timers think when the next generation of cooks couldn't cook a brisket or a pork butt with out injecting chemicals into the meat, an RV with air conditioning and a automated cooker running compressed fuel of some sort? That's what the future of comp BBQ looks like in my eye's and that's what makes me push back on issues like this.
Comp BBQ is all about money now. Winning becomes the dominant force in decisions made to justify our investment in our hobby. I am guilty of this to some extent myself. I like to get a check that pays for my hobby. I can't tell you how guy's I've heard say I'm here for the check, the trophy and the bragging rights. I'm here to win, method be damned. We all want to win.
This entire argument is really about BBQ traditionalists VS. BBQ modernists
Both have a right to have divergent ideas.
I would personally like to see the tradition stay in the game. Let me have a separate comp for the traditional pipe pit running totally organic and I'll be happy in my niche.
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OddThomas
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Aug 13 2007 Post subject: Re: Pellet Cooker, glorified oven or BBQ Pit, reposted |
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| bluesman250 wrote: | | Anyway, with out upsetting anyone, what are your thoughts on pellet cookers. are they real Q? Are they cheating? Does setting a dial and walking away constitute BBQ, or do you need to get your hands dirty with wood or charcoal? Let me know what you think! |
HI,
I think it's important to point out that when the OP used the term cheating, he was referring to "taking the easy way out" so to speak and wasn't necessarily talking about just competitions. Basically he is of the mind that if you don't burn "real" (pellets are 100% real wood BTW) wood or charcoal and if you don't have to "tend fire", you're swindling your taste buds. That if you don't have to stay up all night eyeballing the temperature gauge or fidgeting with the dampers, you're pulling a fast one on your palette. I've never used a pellet muncher, but that just seems like pit envy to me. Hell I'm envious sometimes. 
How Q is cooked takes a distant backseat to how Q tastes. Great Q isn't about hard work, getting dirty, or loosing sleep. It's about understanding the cooking process and achieving the flavor and the texture you desire. If you can turn out a great product, then what difference does it make that you did it with less effort? |
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