FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Welding Design Help

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Smoke Ring Forum Index -> Welding
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
upmm019
BBQ Fan


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15 18 2:10 am    Post subject: Welding Design Help Reply with quote

Hello Fellow Smoke Ringer’s..... been a longtime since I was on this forum but when I was I got tremendous amount of support when building my clone cabinet smoker and last year you guys helped with another non-smoker welding issue I had.

I am hoping to get some more Smoke Ring brethren help again with a non-smoker design/welding project I have.

I purchased a steel table that was designed for a DIY CNC Plasma/Router set up - The guy I bought it from never finished it and I bought it thinking I could use it for the same purpose but solely for CNC Router purposes.



The dilemma I am having is that this table is 68” wide by 9 feet long and it’s too large to go through the door in the work shed I have.

So I need to modify the table so that the width does not exceed 60” and it needs to break down into like three or four sections so I can bring it through the doorway of my work shed and reassemble – yet still be very rigid.

Given I am going to use this for CNC router I need to build out the middle table section to hold a spoil board - The DIY CNC I have will ride along the I beams – so I basically just need to put some steel supports width wise to not only hold the spoil boards but also help make it more rigid.

With this CNC given its DIY it will not have the resolution of a professional grade CNC but it still needs to be level and square, etc. Looking at the photo I feel I do not need to modify the left or right length wise... If those were their own sections I can get them inside. I just need to work out some sort of middle that can secure the two halves together and perhaps something to keep it square, etc.

I am hoping I have shared enough information that will allow some feedback and suggestions.

Below is a photo of the DIY CNC machine but on a wooden table. I want to try and keep this metal table because maybe someday I'd like to retrofit it to do plasma.

_________________
Weber Performer
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KMM
Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2016
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16 18 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I understand correctly, you are wanting to permanently cut the table width down to 60" for no other reason than to fit through a 60" door? If so, why not tip the table it on its side and slide it through the existing door?

If 60" requirement is a functional requirement of the cnc, I would use a pretty straight forward process.... Grind the ends off, cut to size and reweld. The current design looks like it could be prone to some twist ....might want to consider adding some gussets to stiffen it up. I don't know how large or well equipped your shop is, but facing the ends of the recut pieces on a mill will give you a better shot at reattaching and keeping the unit square.

Alternatively, if space permits it may be easier and quicker to enlarge the existing shop door?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
upmm019
BBQ Fan


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16 18 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 60" is a functional requirement as the DIY CNC I am building can only span 60"

Also, the other reason I need to have it break down is that my work shed is in my fenced back yard and the gate is not wide enough. Making the gate and shed door larger is not an option.

I don't have any tools that would allow facing the ends.

This evening I did cut it apart with my plasma cutter. I kept each rail section intact
_________________
Weber Performer
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
upmm019
BBQ Fan


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19 18 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have chopped the table down, ground down the old weld spots and have mocked it up.

Given I want to take it apart with some ease I am not sure the best approach.

Here are some photos that may help understand what I am trying to accomplish.



_________________
Weber Performer
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KMM
Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2016
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19 18 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ability to disassemble and still maintain tight table tolerances without occasionally tweaking is problematic. My thought is to reassemble with bolts rather than welding. Fortunately it appears that you can bolt x-members to the back of the rail supports. I wold use a something fairly rigid such as 1x3 (minimum 3/16 thickness) If you can find a laser level to get the sides squared and leveled, the x-members could be clamped into place for drilling. If you do not have a mag drill, now would be a really good time to get one. Once you have the x-members bolted in place, I recommend cutting gusset plates and drill them to match the bolt pattern thereby stiffening the entire assembly. The same process would apply to angled x-member(s) below the table. I would recommend a minimum if three bolts per joint in a triangular pattern.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
upmm019
BBQ Fan


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19 18 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KMM - thanks for the detailed response. I know I am overstepping using this forum for non smoker questions.

Couple of questions.... I had planned on using bolts to secure it all together. I ordered some weld on tabs -

When you say 1x3 are you talking steel tube? I am sure I can get some - my only experience was getting square tubing from a local metal shop - that was back when I did my clone smoker.

When you say X member - in my mind this is what I think you mean but just want to clarify - Here is a poor visual example of what I think you saying...


_________________
Weber Performer
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KMM
Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2016
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19 18 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes sir, the 1x3 material I referred to was either A513 or A500 mild steel.
Given the relatively small quantities, I doubt your local steel distributor will want to bother with the order. (However, it does not hurt to ask.)
If you have a either a local blacksmith or machine shop, they will probably be able to help you out. If nothing else, you can always get it at metalsdepot.com. For this application, I would stay away from anything from a scrapyard as there is a higher probability of the steel being twisted and/or bent.
My thought was to simply replicate the basic cross member configuration shown in your first first picture. Granted, the cross buck design you drew would be stronger, but it will also be much harder to weld-up square and flat without access to professional layout and welding tables. The weld on tab idea could work, but lacking mill/lathe equipment to square off the ends of cross members, I would stay away from them as well.
Given the amount of tweaking you are going to do to get the table squared off, I really think bolts and gusset plates are the way to go with this application.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
upmm019
BBQ Fan


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21 18 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KMM - I've decided against making this into removable bolt on sections. I am going to build a smaller CNC for my work shed because after checking the space the current one is going to be too large... however, I can use it in my garage and when I don't want to use it I have a trailer I can load it onto and put it away in my storage unit.

That said, the new requirement will to be allow me to store the CNC machine that is on top into a custom storage box that will fit on the bottom shelf. Seems do able even with the x member on each end. I can slide the box through on the side.

If I just go and weld it back the way it was .... what other supports do I need to add? - Keep in mind I have to fill in the bottom with some steel to hold 3/4" ply for the shelf and same on the top but the 3/4" plywood has to be flush with the top of the I beam. For these area what size square tube do you think would be sufficient to span the 59.5 inches yet hold the 3/4" plywood with no sag?

I will place it back on the casters once it's all welded back up but need to ensure there is no twist - meaning that the I-beams stay parallel with each other and level, etc.
_________________
Weber Performer
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KMM
Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2016
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22 18 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you are starting from scratch! The current table has a couple problematic flaws. First, the tracks are being used as the load bearing members on the long axis. This will subject them to twisting when the table is on uneven surfaces. They will also be bearing the weight of your working surface as well as the piece being worked. Granted, router applications are not as severe as torch configurations. The second biggie I the lack of a crossmember on the top front of the table.
You will be much happier with the application if cut the beams off and welded some 1/8" 3x3's on to the top of those 1.5"x3" ( I am guessing that is the correct size) post/legs. Then Use same 3x3 stock to fabricate 3 crossmembers that would be welded in between the ends and in the middle, thus forrming a rigid surface for mounting your 3/4" plywood base plate. The tracks would be attached using fine tread rod and bolts to provide the finite set-up adjustments necessary to level the cnc. I would replace the crossmembers you cut out with 1.5"X1.5" x1/8" tube (again, assuming the legs are 1.5"x3" stock) which will be plenty strong enough to accept storage shelves if you elect.k
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
upmm019
BBQ Fan


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30 18 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KMM - thanks for you help ... this is what I accomplished. It's off by about 1/8 " but so far has not impacted how the cnc works.



Thanks for your help... I had to make what I had work as the table cost me $400 but then ended up buying another $148 in steel. All in all I think it will work now.

Question if you don't mind... I want to add a swivel laptop mount. Sure I can make one out of wood now that I have the CNC up but I want it out of steel. Any suggestions how I can use tube stock for this. I would mount it on the front right corner and it should swing to the left and then all the way around to the right.
_________________
Weber Performer
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KMM
Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2016
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30 18 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job! I am impressed, you transformed that thing into a stable cnc platform!

The computer table wouldn't be too difficult. Before I get too involved, with the bill of materials, please help me understand which end you consider the front?

Again, great job!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
upmm019
BBQ Fan


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 248
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30 18 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmm - Using the last photo I posted the front is the front right corner if you are standing with your back to the doors and the snowblower is to your right.
_________________
Weber Performer
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KMM
Newbie


Joined: 01 May 2016
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31 18 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, this shouldn't be too hard.
First, cut a length of the 1.5" tubing about 18" long
Drill three equally spaced 5/8" holes through one wall of the tube
Center and weld a 5/8" nut over each hole
Cut a length of schedule 3/4" 40 black pipe 3" longer than the 18" tube you just built
Determine how far out from the table you would like the computer table to be then cut a length of tube to that length and then a hole large enough to just slide the 3/4" tube through on one end of the tube....drilling a 3/8" pilot hole and using a step drill (one can get one on the cheap from scary freight) to size each side.
Slide pipe into hole and weld the end of the pipe flush with the wall of the tube. You should be able to weld the pipe inside the tube as well. This piece will fit down into the tube with the welded nuts.
You can now cut and weld a length of tube to bring the mount up to your desired work hieght. That tubewill be welded to the opposite end (and in the opposite direction of the 3/4" tube.
Weld or mount the tube with nuts onto the table leg, keeping in need a spacer between leg and tube.
Slide 3/4" tube into the 1.5" tube you just mounted to the table leg. Install 3-ea 5/8" bolts and tighten just enough to take the slack out of the pipe/tube assembly. The mount should be able to swing freely and can be locked in place with the bolts.
Install table onto the swing assembly as required
Sounds sort of detailed, but shouldn't take more than an hour or two to knock out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Smoke Ring Forum Index -> Welding All times are GMT + 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group