FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


Question about briskets

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Smoke Ring Forum Index -> General BBQ Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ben2win



Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 12:55 am    Post subject: Question about briskets Reply with quote

Hello all,
I've tried cooking several briskets, mostly just the flat. I just smoked an 11 pound tip and flat, and the results, while still tasty, were far from perfect.

Even though I used real wood logs (oak) supplemented with lump charcoal, and had plenty of smoke, when I pulled it off the grill at 190 degrees internal temp, there was a very thin smoke ring, and the meat was more well done than I like.

I rubbed the brisket down with yellow mustard and a basic garlic/pepper/onion/sea salt rub (with other spices) and let it rest overnight in the fridge.

One thing I noticed about the finished brisket is that the bark was much tougher than usual, and the meat was brown all the way through. I'm wondering if injecting the meat would allow the inside to cook slower and produce a better smoke ring.

My question is, why no smoke ring? I smoked 11 pounds for about 13 hours at an average temp of 210 degrees, with plenty of wood smoke. I'm wondering if the overnight stay in the fridge somehow caused such a tight seal on the meat that little smoke penetrated the meat (although it did have some smoke flavor, and was/is tasty). Also, this is the first time I've used yellow mustard under the rub, and I wonder if that interfered with things.

I did have a little trouble maintaining a constant temp, it fluctuated between 180 and 250, but stayed in the 210 range most of the time (with constant, exhausting babysitting). I think this due to the fact that it was a windy day and the outside temp was around 45 degrees...

Anyway, any insights for this beginner? I have smoked a LOT of pulled pork and chicken with success, but briskets are a bit tougher (pun intended).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ben
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
k.c.hawg
BBQ Super Pro


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 1752

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben you will get a lot of varying responses. One thing I will point out is @ 190 you might have pulled it prematurely. Some take there brisket to 195-205 depending when that particular brisket gets tender. A second way to test it is with the temperature probe and the reistance. It should slide in with no resistance. Another thing is the meat itself....is it possible it was a select cut? I always buy choice or better. I have seen select briskets that Houdini couldn't make edible. I never inject, I always cook whole packer briskets, I use a very light coat of grapeseed oil and a reasonably simple rub put on while the pit comes up to temp. Take notes of what you did this time and next time make subtle changes, maybe forego the mustard slather and try a light oil and run your temp 225-250 then compare. Most of all I would emphasize to make sure to get a choice grade or better.
_________________
http://kchawgskitchen.blogspot.com/
Horizon Marshall 20"
Primo XL
30" Masterbuilt Digital
UDS (Named Uddley by Mrs K.C.)
Weber 26.75 One Touch
Weber 22.5 Silver Touch
Weber Smokey Joe
Superfast Red Thermopen
Razorback born and bred!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ben2win



Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 1:43 am    Post subject: Thanks KC Reply with quote

Well, I used an organic grass-fed local brisket, top of the line...it cost me $70.
I have doubts about the mustard slather also. One reason I pulled it off at 190 is that in my experience, you can wrap it at that point and let it sit as the juices mingle...maybe I'm just not patient enough. When I start at 7 AM and don't finish until almost 10 PM, I'm more than ready to be done.
I think the oil and rub just before cooking is the right way to go. That's the first time I used a slather, and I think it interfered with smoke absorption. It was VERY moist meat however, just a little overdone, even though I pulled it off a little early.
Thanks KC.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
k.a.m.
BBQ Mega Star


Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 26019
Location: Southeast Texas.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben2win, I doubt the mustard is the problem, I could fill this page with deep smoke rings on briskets with a mustard slather. Very Happy Coming right out of the fridge and onto the cooker is a preferred method for rings as it keeps the meat below 140° longer.

I would look at the salt content in your rub along with what type wood your using these can be contributing factors in little or no ring.

Another thing is if the cooker was hot when the brisket was put on then you could have warmed it up so fast that the ring sealed off. I prefer my briskets to cook at between 230° and 260° but shoot for a constant somewhere in there.

Smoke rings are okay when they happen but I rarely care about them they happen when they happen. You can wrap the brisket when it reaches 160° to 165° internal and pull off a beautiful ring and save your juices. Your bark will soften up a bit but the end result is moist and tender brisket.
I hope this helps. Very Happy
_________________
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

Hybrid Cooker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
k.c.hawg
BBQ Super Pro


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 1752

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah some of my briskets go to 20+ hours. It sounds like your brisket was not the problem. I'm not a fan of the real low temp cooking.....I think when you were falling below 210 you were kind of spinning your wheels. I use to have several hours of cook time on a brisket in that 200 range and since I've bumped it up and try to maintain 225-250 on my pit temp I'm having more success with the briskets. I've slathered with mustard before and it didn't make enough of a difference for me to continue doing it. Sometimes I get a nicer smoke ring then others not really sure why, there are a lot of variables that are involved other than the wood. Here is a recent brisket.







I'm not sure where you are located but I have very good success with the choice grade, fuller packer briskets from Costco and Sams Club. Very good prices and I'm never disappointed in the quality. Of course if you prefer organic I'm not sure they would be your choice.
_________________
http://kchawgskitchen.blogspot.com/
Horizon Marshall 20"
Primo XL
30" Masterbuilt Digital
UDS (Named Uddley by Mrs K.C.)
Weber 26.75 One Touch
Weber 22.5 Silver Touch
Weber Smokey Joe
Superfast Red Thermopen
Razorback born and bred!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SoEzzy
Site Admin


Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 13183
Location: SLC, UT

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) What were you cooking on?

2) How much wood?

3) Don't rest it overnight! I'm like k.a.m. in that I start the fire, take the meat out of the fridge and rub it down then when the pit is at a stable temperature I put the meat on the pit.

4) Don't use the mustard to bind your rub, you don't need the added thickness and water or a little Worcestershire sauce if you want some better rub adherence.

5) Smoke ring production occurs between the meat and the nitrates & nitrites in the smoke and only until the outer part of the meat reaches about 140°. So low nitrate & nitrite levels when you put the meat on will have less smoke ring than higher nitrate & nitrite levels.

Take some pictures and show us what you are cooking on, your fire if you can take a picture of that too.
_________________
Here's a change Robert.

I still work here!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ben2win



Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks...
I'm cooking on an inexpensive clone of the small smoker model, thin steel and plenty of leaks, although I've sealed it pretty well now with fireplace gasket. It's cheap, but I've done a lot of pork etc (even a couple of smaller flats) with pretty good results. Next year, I hope to move up to pro grade.

I used a combination of about 1/3 chimney of lump charcoal and 2-3 oak logs (split from larger logs) about 3-5 inches thick. That usually works well in warm weather, but I had a hard time with the wind and 45 degree outside temp in keeping a constant stable temp. I had to use more fuel than in the summer, and adding wood sometimes would flare up and take the temp too high, at which point I would have to vent off the extra heat. I went through about 5-6 times, but for the most part, I kept it around 210 degrees. It got as high as 350 at one point, and as low as 150 at another, but I dealt with it pretty quickly.

It's the first time I used the mustard slather, it was from a recipe I found. I think it makes sense to not rub and let it sit overnight. This bark was really, really tough...like shrpen your knife on every slice tough. The meat was moist and tender though, just a little overcooked, it seemed to me. When we ate it fresh off the smoker, the taste was more like roast beef or prime rib, but letting it sit in the fridge overnight made a huge difference. I guess I've eaten about 2 pounds in 3 days, lol.
I think my main problem is patience. Briskets take a LONG time...and I let the temp get higher (about 275) in the last hour or so...it was cold out, lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rinngrizz
BBQ Pro


Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 525
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14 12 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben2win wrote:
Thanks...
I'm cooking on an inexpensive clone of the small smoker model, thin steel and plenty of leaks, although I've sealed it pretty well now with fireplace gasket. It's cheap, but I've done a lot of pork etc (even a couple of smaller flats) with pretty good results. Next year, I hope to move up to pro grade.

I used a combination of about 1/3 chimney of lump charcoal and 2-3 oak logs (split from larger logs) about 3-5 inches thick. That usually works well in warm weather, but I had a hard time with the wind and 45 degree outside temp in keeping a constant stable temp. I had to use more fuel than in the summer, and adding wood sometimes would flare up and take the temp too high, at which point I would have to vent off the extra heat. I went through about 5-6 times, but for the most part, I kept it around 210 degrees. It got as high as 350 at one point, and as low as 150 at another, but I dealt with it pretty quickly.

It's the first time I used the mustard slather, it was from a recipe I found. I think it makes sense to not rub and let it sit overnight. This bark was really, really tough...like shrpen your knife on every slice tough. The meat was moist and tender though, just a little overcooked, it seemed to me. When we ate it fresh off the smoker, the taste was more like roast beef or prime rib, but letting it sit in the fridge overnight made a huge difference. I guess I've eaten about 2 pounds in 3 days, lol.
I think my main problem is patience. Briskets take a LONG time...and I let the temp get higher (about 275) in the last hour or so...it was cold out, lol.


sounds like you just have some air leaks that are messing with your temps. I too like to cook around the 250 mark on butts and brisket. 325 for chicken and right around 225 for ribs. Like KAM said, if the smoke ring happens, it happens. If not, no big deal, the outcome still tastes good. dont get hung up on stuff like that. focus on the important stuff like family, friends, fellowship and beer while you are cooking. and 45 degrees was "freezing"????? COME ON MAN! lol thats a BEAUTIFUL day here in my parts right now. I'm sure Roxy, CB, and the other northern boys would love them some 45 degree days now and in the next few months.

You sound like ur doing fine, brother, just keep cooking and look at it this way, the mistakes are still better than what most otheres are eating that day.
_________________
Jason

Modified ECB
UDS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ben2win



Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15 12 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol, I hear that from all the yankees round here...but I love Western Mass. My southern blood still hasn't adjusted after almost 5 years though. Winter before last, I did four things -- split wood, carry wood, burn wood, and sit in front of the woodstove...I only went outdoors to carry in more wood, lol...
I'm trying to work out a summer-in-Mass and winter in Florida or Carolina type of situation, but, you know, it's nice to wish.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daddywoofdawg
BBQ Super Pro


Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Starkweather,ND

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15 12 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked your therms?you may not be cooking at the temp you think.also a 1/3 of a chimney is pretty light.in my cheap char(whatever)I put a full chimney in and a couple sticks you need a good bed of coals to keep the temp from bouncing around.
I have good luck cooking in the 250 range.
your bark can get hard if you have alot of sugar or salt.(think salt crust)and (hard candy).
I also use foil at the end.call it a crutch or call it the best brisket you've eaten.
_________________
Good BBQ is all smoke and beers!
The Dawghouse Custom vertical Gasser
Custom Made offset smoker
Char grill smoker
Weber kettle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jim38344
BBQ Fan


Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 162
Location: TN now. Back in TEXAS soon.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15 12 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.........."Well, I used an organic grass-fed local brisket, ".....

I think you may have answered your own question right there.
_________________
All's well that ends..........
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zilla
BBQ Super Pro


Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 1190
Location: Universal City, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15 12 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the mustard. It blocked the smoke.

Mr. Mustard in the smoker with the knife.
_________________
Zilla

GIANT BBQ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1MoreFord
BBQ Pro


Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 594
Location: N. Little Rock & Hot Springs, Arkansas

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15 12 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jim78954 wrote:
.........."Well, I used an organic grass-fed local brisket, ".....

I think you may have answered your own question right there.


I'm leaning a bit this way too. Grass fed makes for some tasty steaks but I'm not sure it's the way you want to go for brisky.

I also question cookin' @ 210° and only takin' to 190°. I like to cook hotter - at least 250°. The last one I cooked was @ 325° and It was just as good as the ones @ 250°. IMO you should start checking briskets for tenderness around 190° but they may not probe test tender until as high as 210° or 215° for the occasional stubborn one.
_________________
Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daddywoofdawg
BBQ Super Pro


Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Starkweather,ND

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15 12 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.mustard, in the smoker, with the brisket.
_________________
Good BBQ is all smoke and beers!
The Dawghouse Custom vertical Gasser
Custom Made offset smoker
Char grill smoker
Weber kettle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Smoke Ring Forum Index -> General BBQ Discussion All times are GMT + 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group