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Smoke Point
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Stevens Point, WI

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27 11 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was telling my wife about this discussion while we were traveling to Green Bay this weekend, and she came up with a unique option. Instead of telling them how many they can have, discourage them from having too many. First bottle, normal price, 2nd, price doubles, 3rd, triples, etc. Probably wouldn't work, but I thought it was definitely a different idea.

As far as open or concealed carry in a restaurant goes, it doesn't bother me. The people I would get cautious around if they are carrying are the ones that I am cautious around when they are not. Although now that I know that Harry is CC, I may have to watch my comments on the food. Very Happy (seriously- great food and I can't wait to get back up there)

I do find it interesting that you can say, "we are choosing not to serve alcohol" and while people might advise otherwise, but they don't say they would never come back. Say you'd limit them to one drink, and they won't return.

Thank you for a great discussion. I love seeing the different points of view. I doubt I'll ever get to open a restaurant, but reading this forum always gets me thinking.

Ben
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben:

Yes, that is interesting to me too.

I would have thought the reverse would have happened when I posted this for discussion. The gun forums are trying to figure out one-two-height/weight-times and such while the restaurant owners got sidetracked on the open vs. concealed carry debates and silly little, "I'm made of rubber, you're made of glue/Look it up yourself" nonsense.

The problem I'd have with your wife's pricing scheme would be that I'm profiteering as they get more UI/Drunk. God Forbid somebody shoots someone after a few drinks and it comes out that I made more money on the third beer than on the second.

It also leaves the concealed carry idiots able to imbibe at lower cost and since the facts are that they are more likely to be involved in a shooting than an open carrier it leaves me vulnerable in court (it seems). Gotta be careful with those CC cowboys, they're trying for tactical advantages and have no concern about responsible drinking unless it is solely their decision process. They scare me.

What I needed was a reasonable, easily applied policy and I think I have one with the one per hour system coupled with good signage as to individual responsibility. I might lower it to one per 45 minutes but I don't think I can go lower.
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Smoke Point
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Stevens Point, WI

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I didn't think it would work in the real world, but it was fun to talk about. Best of luck with your place, and if we ever make it out that way I'll stop by, beer or not, guns or not, as long as you have BBQ

Ben
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoke Point wrote:
Yeah, I didn't think it would work in the real world, but it was fun to talk about. Best of luck with your place, and if we ever make it out that way I'll stop by, beer or not, guns or not, as long as you have BBQ

Ben


And isn't that what it is all supposed to be about folks...yeah!

Assuming I'm still in business I'll look forward to you stopping in and chowing down.
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Harry Nutczak
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 8558
Location: The Northwoods

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tactical advantage to CC as opposed to OC??

No such thing as tactical advantage when carrying CC. Why? Because when a private citizen chooses to carry a "Defensive" weapon, they are on the defensive side, not offensive. Concealing is best used a surprise tactic for offense as opposed to defense. OC does work as a deterrent, but your not going to see news stories about a non-event. How would a reporter report about "Nothing happened"?

Now there was a guy in Milwaukee who was OC'ing, and he was not paying attention to his surroundings and he got robbed of his gun by another guy who came up behind him, held him at gunpoint and took the gun off his side. The guy had poor situational awareness. All we have had in WI for the last 200 years has been OC, so I have been OC'ing because it is my only legal option when outside of my business. But I do not wear a nickel-plated 1911, I wear a grn & Blk pistol that blends in with my clothing, most do not even notice I am carrying a gun because it blends in so well.

I choose to CC at the restaurant for a few reasons,
1) I do not want to frighten someone who may be suffering from hoplophobia, and some people do get angry when they see another person exercising their 2A rights.
2) I do not need the extra mung and pork fat all over my nice Grn/Blk XDm .40

A few weeks back, we even hosted an open-carry meet & Eat, then the next day we had a fun shoot at the local range which helped raise some coin for the special olympics org in my area


If CC was a tactical advantage, all military and police forces would be carrying concealed instead of open on their side.
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Mr Tony's BBQ
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Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 5067
Location: Fredonia Wi

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THIS "concealed carry idiot" HAS - FIRST HAND stopped a violent crime by having a concealed pistol to put in the rib cage of a puke who had pulled his pistol in the shoulder of my brother in law - call it cowboy, call it stupid - Bob called it a great move on my part - and is alive today to tell the story of how the puke ran off knowing if he shot, he would have been shot dead- would he have seen mine if I had been open carrying??? doubt it based on the situation - he was drunk when he walked in and had some kind of agenda nobody knows about to this day - pushed his way between Bob and I to get to the bar and didnt like the way Bob said "excuse me" the punk WAS "ILLEGALLY" carrying with ill intent, I was because I had it on me from being out hunting just before stopping for a couple at a place that was happy we did carry - never saw him before or since, nor has the establishment. IF the bar tender had made a move for his, it may have set the puke off???? I gently presented mine to his kill area and informed him....Violent crime stopped by concealed carry -ABSOLUTELY! dozens of similar stories in the area I am talking about - yea, there are that many IDIOTS out there. Its ONLY the criminals with guns we need to worry about.
Obviously the choice is yours - been there, done that, cant imagine not being prepared.
If your worried about people drinking and breaking the law - then you should be taking the keys from everyone you serve. You have no way of knowing how well they are handling the 0, 5 or 15 they had before stopping by your place.
I certainly would not walk away from some great Q because you wanted me to leave my 9 in the truck, but do know that once you add regulations to your policy, your gonna get people breaking said rules on purpose, just to see if they can. I think your better off not serving anyone who looks tipsy - let it be known beer is available but your not a "drinking establishment" and let the gun laws be without adding your own regs to them. JM2CW
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some will never get it Harry.

Just because they attempt to gain some sort of tactical advantage, doesn't mean they will get it.

Your point on military personnel is well-taken as a generality although the situations are radically different between full-blown combat and urban hostile environments.

There is a POSSIBLE tactical advantage when you are in an area that goes violent and you are an "unknown" versus being armed. You may, or may not, be able to gain that advantage and then have to determine whether you can take advantage of it or not.

The tactical advantage versus deterrence effect is viewed by many as a wash. Some are only concerned with dealing with anything that happens, others chose to serve up fair warning to avoid the issue in its entirety if possible.

The concealed carry idiots who persist in their anti-OC ranting and empty rhetoric are doing their best to destroy the 2A with their flawed logic but, hopefully, the Constitution will prevail.

Interestingly, I have never met an OC'er who cared about the CC'ers being right or wrong. It always comes from the smugly over-confident CC crowd that they have the only way figured out. We see vividly what happens when some are so vehement that their way is the "only way". Sad.


Last edited by ecocks on Tue Jun 28 11 10:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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Bbq Bubba
BBQ Pro


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 503
Location: New Baltimore Mich.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading a BBQ thread and got bumped into a tactical forum?
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bbq Bubba wrote:
I was reading a BBQ thread and got bumped into a tactical forum?


Funnier still is the gun forum where they are trying to discuss the effect of a policy on BBQ customers, go figure......
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daddywoofdawg
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Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 3892
Location: Starkweather,ND

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just food for though,for those of you that have never been to war,killing,shooting another human(scum or not)isn't easy.It's not like you see on tv or john wayne movies.And that feeling stay's with you the rest of your life!
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BBQMAN
BBQ Super All Star


Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15474
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So back on Topic:

When do you get your beer lisense, and how hard is it to obtain?

How much is it?

Will your insurance premiums go up?

How do expect it it influence your bottom line (if at all), and why?

The above questions are pretty much key in my book as to why add it at all.

Most (if not all) would be doing so to increase the bottom line and ROI overall.

I've talked to a lot of lot of raunt owners, and by far they all mention that great food brings people back, but that the alcohol sales really pay the bills due to the high ROI.

Our own Harry will tell you (and I agree) that the profit on a plate of BBQ ain't much.


We have a place on the beaches that serves GREAT Italian food.

Well established- been there for many years.

The owner was on the news a few years back explaining how high insurance rates were about to drive him under because you can just charge so much for a plate of pasta (and he's right).

He told me when we met up that the only thing keeping him afloat was alcohol sales.
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Harry Nutczak
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Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 8558
Location: The Northwoods

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And on the other hand, selling beer at my place would not help the bottom line right now.
As much as I would love a bunch of guys sitting around drinking beer and eating BBQ, I need to turn tables as rapidly as I can due to our huge summer volume, the faster that I can get them in and out, the better off we are.
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This concerns me too Harry. My footprint doesn't favor a sit-around atmosphere though. We're comfortable but pretty open and in a simple, square room and CW music on the overhead speakers, so it's not really conducive to long, private discussions. Surprisingly, occasional groups do come in and sit for up to 3 hours every now and then but it's rare.

I have maybe 3 regulars who come in (separately) with paperbacks to sit and read at the window seats. Hopeless romantics and singles looking for some people to be around is my assessment. There are also a couple of salesmen who come in about 1:30 or 2:00, order lunch, setup their PC's and camp out with their drink cup while quietly making calls, working the computer or filling out paperwork.

Assuming I settle on 1 per hour for the gun guys/gals I'm thinking of a three beer limit for regular guests.

I expect sales would be on the order of 15-20 cases a week tops.


Last edited by ecocks on Wed Jun 29 11 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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RodinBangkok
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Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 491
Location: Bangkok Thailand

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28 11 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To promote turnaround, and use outer wall areas you may want to think about a standup pub type short shelf bar, small stools that can be pushed under the bar. During slow season you can adjust this area for more full seating, and compress things a bit during high season by using the perimeter standup.
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Shotgun Petes
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Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 492
Location: Columbia, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29 11 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you could set up tables, umbrellas and chairs in a beer garden area out front on the sidewalk? Make that the only place you can sit and have beers. Wink
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29 11 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shotgun Petes wrote:
Maybe you could set up tables, umbrellas and chairs in a beer garden area out front on the sidewalk? Make that the only place you can sit and have beers. Wink


THAT is a constructive idea. I have 5 tables out on the sidewalk.
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Shotgun Petes
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Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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Location: Columbia, MO

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29 11 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and to enforce that idea... only serve that beer out there or direct beer drinkers to take thier beer out to the beer garden area, and have a sign on the door (both sides)...
and on the menu next to the beer selection...


"Please consume beer outside
in the beer garden area only."
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Reverse flow smoker made by my dad "Shotgun Pete" Peters over 30 years ago!

"If you can't BBQ with the Big Dogs, back away from the Pit!"

SHOTGUN PETE'S BBQ SHACK
28 N Ninth St
COLUMBIA, MO

(Downtown across from The Blue Note)
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29 11 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, good concept. My sidewalk is about 14' wide and the city allows me to take up 6' with tables. Chairs are movable but still need to allow a pathway for pedestrians.

Beer "Garden" might be a bit ostentatious. I just don't have the layout for that.
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BBQMAN
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 15474
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29 11 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Please consume beer outside
in the beer garden area only."


Sounds like a great idea now.

What happens in January (or Nov, Dec, Feb, March, Apr)?

How quickly does your dinner get cold?

I don't think I''ll be drinking my one beer outside in the winter unless I'm at a ski resort and just came off the slopes.
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ecocks
BBQ Super Fan


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Baku, Azerbaijan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30 11 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RodinBangkok wrote:
To promote turnaround, and use outer wall areas you may want to think about a standup pub type short shelf bar, small stools that can be pushed under the bar. During slow season you can adjust this area for more full seating, and compress things a bit during high season by using the perimeter standup.


Rod:

I thought about a shelf or counter-type seating area for singles but went with all tables since the area isn't an office or student zone. Our lunch business drives here from elsewhere and isn't interested in standing up while eating. We get a few solo eaters but more often it is business folks or people meeting other people.

If I get to a second place then it's in my plans since I will either be in a business or student area.
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