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A really Bad move

 
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Alien BBQ
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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Location: Roswell, New Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 9:38 am    Post subject: A really Bad move Reply with quote

Well guy’s I am a bit unhappy. I have seen the photos of the new Smoke N Pit from Brinkman for about 6 months now and have never seen on out of the box. Well tonight I finally saw one out of the box. At first glance, it is bigger than previous SnP’s. When you open the cover, it folds a second warming rack up and out of the way (just like on a grill.) The cooking grates are larger and nicer than older SnP’s but that is where the niceties stop. Brinkman has changed out the gauge with one that runs to 700 degrees, but I suspect it is still a POS. There is no way I would ever attempt anything above 350 on this unit. The metal is thinner than other SnP’s and when I went to open the fire box door, it flexed! Now they have installed a charcoal grate that is raised in the fire box, but I really believe that the firebox metal is actually thinner than the cooking section metal. With the way they have the second warming grate installed; you can not do any mods on the exhaust pipe (which is way too short). The bottom line is that the SnP is now in reality a cheap grill. IMHO don’t buy this grill as a smoker because you will not be happy with it.
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roaster
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is the grill that i bought. It is my first grill. I know exactly what your are talking about. I don't use the warming shelf. I have too make a new grate for the fire box as one that came with it cannot take the heat. It bends downward, like a old mattress. . before i do another cook i take out the grate and step on it to make it flat.. As for the mods I have extened the stack to the cooking grate. And added a deflector sheild to the fire box, But i think i am going to get rid of that. I was wondering if i extened the stack to below the cooking great. Would this help. as making the heat go down lower the the cooking grat to escape.

roaster
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bigabyte
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Joined: 09 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It flexed? Shocked Shocked Shocked

Good lord! I'm not buying one of those, and I love my old Brinkmann! Evil or Very Mad

I guess if there is any advantage to the steel foil cooker, it will be a lot easier to cut and weld. I would cut off the super thin exhaust stack, weld a patch over it, cut a hole down low on the side of the cooker, and weld in an exhaust down where it should be. Or maybe even go reverse flow if you can figure out where to put the stack in a way the firebox door still opens.
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Rub N Smoke
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad for Brinkmann! Normally their products are of Good Quality. Evil or Very Mad
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roxy
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Joined: 29 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Alien, you could be right about the metal but after all it is the cook not the cooker right...

My team mate Molson has the cooker and uses it very well. So well in fact that he cooked up ribs at our last comp and took 2nd place against over a dozen teams using Big green eggs, treagers and large trailer smokers. The only mod Molson did to his unit is to flip the cooking chamber charcoal grate over to act as a baffle.

It may not be the best smoker out there but then Brinkmann SnP's never were as they required an endless list of mods to make it work right. Seems to me like Brinkmann might have got a few things right after all with this unit.

I would recommend it to anyone looking to buy a cheap smoker that does not require hours of mods and wants to be able to make competition class BBQ.

But then that is just my 2 cents worth
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BoilermakerFan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is it thinner than a Char-Griller now? The Brinkman SnP isn't carried by me, but I wasn't impressed by the cost or quality of their charcoal grills so I didn't even look for one.
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bigabyte
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I love my Brinkmann, and just a year ago you would hear me sing praises about it. Now I have some bad things to say, and they are targeted at Brinkmann, not at anybody who posted on this thread.

I could understand the point about the budget cooker a year ago, but the last time I shopped for a Brinkmann SNP offset, it was around $225. In June this year I was looking for a new cooker. I wanted another Brinkmann but knew that price was outrageous for that unit and refused to even entertain the idea. My other choices were a Silver Smoker for around $135 and a WSM for $175 (a real good deal). Average price of a WSM at that time was $200, still far less than the Brinkmann. I ultimately went with the WSM, and let me tell you something. That WSM is just as good of a unit as my Brinkmann ever was. Actually a bit better because it is so portable. I threw it in the trunk of my car when I went to my fathers for Thanksgiving and made some ABT's. Can't do that with my Brinkmann.

I sure hope Brinkmann is selling those steel foil cookers at a bargain price...

Nope, just looked them up on the Brinkmann website and they are $379 Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
http://www.brinkmann.net/Shop/Detail.aspx?category=Outdoor+Cooking&subcategory=Charcoal+Smokers+%26+Grills&sku=805-2101-S&series=OUT-1001-9&seriesname=Pitmaster&id=283

A Silver Smoker with Firebox is $180. So where's the bargain? It costs $200 for the swing out grates and less steel? That firebox grate sure couldn't justify it.

Not everyone will agree with me I'm sure, but I could never recommend that unit in good conciense to someone at that price when there are other equally good, or even better cookers available for far less money.
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roxy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris:

The link you posted is for the old brinkmann not the new one design. The new version looks much like a chargriller and sells up here in Canada at wallwart for under 200 dollars. I agree that almost 400 dollars is a lot for that smoker but I think the one Alien is refering to is the one listed below.

The one in the pic you posted is the one Alien bought a bunch of for his pitmaster classes and not the new version.

The new one looks like this with a side fire box.

http://www.brinkmann.net/Shop/Detail.aspx?category=Outdoor+Cooking&subcategory=Charcoal+Smokers+%26+Grills&sku=810-3030-0&series=OUT-1001-9&seriesname=Pitmaster&id=920

Heres a pic of Molsons unit in action.



All aside, it may not be a excellent smoker by some peoples standards but for an entry level smoker it is a good value. It may not be the quality of the old SnP's but it also does not cost as much so you can buy 2 of the new version for the price of the old one. For under 200.00 for an offset your not going to get 1/4 inch steel.
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krimson_cardnal
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Joined: 31 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien hit it. This summer I was in wallyworld and saw a SnP floor model marked down to $125. I looked it over, then saw new ones in a box at $150 and decided to go for it, in the box. My first smoker!!

Well I got it home and opened it up and saw that it was not even close to the floor model I saw at the store. Back in the box and back to the store. I explained the fact that they were displaying a smoker that they weren't selling! Being "new" to it all I didn't realise at first the new model thing. I complained about having to return what I just bought and really wanted the floor "older" model and wanted consideration. Got that bad boy for $99.00!

Now I'm sure the new one will do the job, but it's a grill more than a smoker. I've done the mod's [see "K_C's SnP Inovations" thread] and I've got it tuned out to a really nice smoker. Now I'm looking for something a bit larger, but I think I'm gonna live with this for a while.

Brinkmann did no one any favors w/ the new model. Looks like they tried to improve it but missed the boat. Warming shelf??? Full opening lid??? The fire box sucks!!!

Could make a killing finding an old stock of the originals. K_C
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bigabyte
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the clarification Roxy. That was the only price I could dig up. I tried searching but all I could find was smoker covers. So the price is competitive with a Silver Smoker, so they are probably about equivalent. Both thin, Brinkmann maybe thinner but with the fancy bells and whistles...
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BoilermakerFan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now it really loks like a Char-Griller too. Except the C-G is cheaper and has a nicer firebox and has cast iron grill grates.

I know most member here are hard core smokers, but I do like the added flexibility of being able to grill, rotissarie, and smoke on the C-G, that's why I bought mine over just a smoker, whether a cheaper one or a more expensive one.

I just wish they both would design a better clamshell with the "shelf" all the way around the lid (except for the rotissarie knock-out area) instead just in front so it's easier to add the fiberglass rope seal.
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Gourmet-Gator
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02 06 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole thread should have been called....(Every Year Things Cost More And More And The Quality Goes Lower and Lower.) Crying or Very sad
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Alien BBQ
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03 06 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roxy, has the right photo and they sell here in the U.S. for $169. My point (and all of you know that I am really a Brinkman fan) is that I feel disappointed in the move to stray away from the quality they produced in the past. I have 5 brinkman smokers from the ECB to the SnP Professional and when compared to these, I would not recommend one to the students in my class. In my opinion, if you see one of the older smokers on clearance to make room for the “new” ones, I would buy the old model.

As far as the talent being in the cook and not the cooker, I agree. However, My SnP Pro lasted 12 years and is still going. In fact I am cooking on it as we speak. If I am going to spend $169 for a smoker I will, but $169 for a charcoal grill, no way. I just feel let down as a Brinkman customer.
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roxy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03 06 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the old version is a better built cooker than the new one and will last longer for sure,but I do think this new one has its merits too.

There is a war going on between Asian and American grill companies and good old America is loosing the battle. Low grade stainless steel grills are killing the quality American companies and driving them out of business. We have a grill retailer here in town that is closing the doors because of it. How can he sell a 2000.00 American made grill when you can buy an Asian made one for 400.00 that looks the same. The Asian product wont last as long as the American one but most folks think with their pocket book and thats a huge difference in price. I would think that Brinkmann is just trying to stay in the market and keep a product they can make cheap and sell the same. For the money, chargriller is still a better buy.
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Smo-Ken
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03 06 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at most of the small offset que's for awhile and was not impressed by any of them in the $200 price range. Then I heard about the Bar-B-Chef. Found a store, checked it out and was very impressed with the heavier metal construction, all cast iron grates and grills, most of the typical "mods" already done for you, etc. A bargain at $250. But then it went on sale and I got it for $199. Cant beat it for quality, heat retention and I'm sure, longevity.
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bigabyte
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03 06 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure these smokers will find a market. In my opinion however, I would rank my WSM as a better unit than my Brinkmann, and this is the old style Brinkmann that is higher quality than what they offer now. These WSM's can be found onsale for just under $200 still today on a regular basis, many times for as low as $179. So if they are trying to go for the sub-$200 market, then I think they need to go lower in price, which I guess would mean even lower quality. I'm juast saying I would get the WSM over the new Brinkmann, or a Silver Smoker for that matter.
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mrcustomsteel
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03 06 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of the commercial where the guy saves his company million$ by removing one olive from each bottle of olives they make, yeah right. I see a shalply dressed young Asian man with a shiny new Harvard MBA walking into the Brinkman Design Center located somewhere in Indonesia saying "lets save $5 a unit by.....

Maybe this is another reason why Travis' phone is ringing off the hook.

Just my humble American Metalworker's opinion.
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BBQMAN
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03 06 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only comment here is- "you certainly get what you pay for"! Shocked

There is good, and then there is cheap. However, there is not to much that is good AND cheap!
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BBQMAN
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03 06 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBQMAN wrote:
My only comment here is- "you certainly get what you pay for"! Shocked

There is good, and then there is cheap. However, there is not to much that is good AND cheap!


I met a gal at Sams' club a week or so ago. She asked what I was doing with all the food loaded on my cart. I told her about the business, and handed her a brochure. She was the food director for a large local church, and wanted to know what she could get for $2.00. I replied a hotdog, and half a soda. Moral of the story, there are not to many freebies out there anymore!

For the money, I love Weber products. They are however limited in size. There is certainly a market out there for high quality medium sized offsets. The problem is price, and most (but not all) folks are only looking for cheap. Thats OK, but see above comment! Laughing
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