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Conflict in interest?
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JimmieOhio
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Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20 10 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff Hughes wrote:
SoEzzy wrote:

Chicken and ribs... chicken and ribs.

I took the class, C&R, I table captained a class, C&R, I helped table captain another class, C&R.


I wonder how that shortcut got started, I wonder if the KCBS knows...

I agree. My class had everything.
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BlowinSmoke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20 10 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoEzzy wrote:
Jeff Hughes wrote:
That's interesting, we cook brisket as part of the judging classes here...


Chicken and ribs... chicken and ribs.

I took the class, C&R, I table captained a class, C&R, I helped table captain another class, C&R.


That is over half the class left out! That's scary.....
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EastTennQcrew
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21 10 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The class I helped with back in Feb, had all four meats. But just 4 boxes of each.


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BRBBQ
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22 10 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merl wrote:
All Qued Up,

I do not like to see anyone beat up or abused on this forum. (and would ask members not to do this to you.) But this time you are incorrect.

I have taught at least 50 CBJ classes. The food, the box design, the flavors are not close to what a team turns in.

Even, if the cook was not given specific instructions on how to cook and prepare the boxes, could you cook the same for 50-70 people as for a table of 6.

I am sorry you were not successful at the contest. But your assumptions are clearly without merit.

Good luck in the future. I would suggest you attend a CBJ class and see how the judges are taught to judge. I think you might find this beneficial.

Merl Whitebook
CBJ Instructor
Merl got that right, he taught me.
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irwinwd



Joined: 22 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22 10 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got certified as a judge a couple weeks ago. I must say that I would hope the competition barbeque is a lot better than what was served at my class. I have not got the chance to judge yet, but plan to later this year. What was served at my class was not on par with what I make at home for my family. I also took into consideration that they were cooking for a class of about 150 people and where I assume one would pick the six best ribs for example these poor folks had to feed 150. My class covered all 4 categories, but there was not much emphasis placed on a taste or texture being right as much as being able to defend your opinion about why you scored it a certain way. I'm sure these folks could all probably cook smoke rings around what I do if they were cooking in small scale. Someone also mentioned something that was true for my experience, the membranes were not trimmed off the ribs, and I'm fairly sure no injections were used on the meats.
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chopshop



Joined: 15 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow. i dont see him beating up on anyone. i see a legitimate question and a bunch of people jumping on the guy for asking. i understand what he saying. if he is telling them to look for this and look for that even if it is blind judging they might be looking for something comparable to what they saw at they class. i dont think that was the case in salisbury. chix swine and bovine is a great team and doesnt need an edge like that to win. i was there and competed and would expect him to be one of the top competitors. PROVEN TRACK RECORD. god forbid someone has a question that someone doesnt agree with. i think you guys need to lighten up just a little bit.
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DawgPhan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chopshop wrote:
wow. i dont see him beating up on anyone. i see a legitimate question and a bunch of people jumping on the guy for asking. i understand what he saying. if he is telling them to look for this and look for that even if it is blind judging they might be looking for something comparable to what they saw at they class. i dont think that was the case in salisbury. chix swine and bovine is a great team and doesnt need an edge like that to win. i was there and competed and would expect him to be one of the top competitors. PROVEN TRACK RECORD. god forbid someone has a question that someone doesnt agree with. i think you guys need to lighten up just a little bit.


you know where the door is...
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Uncle John
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would have a lot to do with how the instructor handles it. If the instructor told everybody "this is exactly how it is supposed to look and taste, anything different is inferior", then there are potential problems. However, I really don't believe any instructor would do this. I would hope that the samples would be discussed subjectively, and honestly.
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SoEzzy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen please refrain from a flame war on the forums!

I carry a big stick, but I'd rather folks are all understanding of the forum rules, common courtesy, and the fact that if I have to use the big stick I will!
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Jeff Hughes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chopshop wrote:
wow. i dont see him beating up on anyone. i see a legitimate question and a bunch of people jumping on the guy for asking. i understand what he saying. if he is telling them to look for this and look for that even if it is blind judging they might be looking for something comparable to what they saw at they class. i dont think that was the case in salisbury. chix swine and bovine is a great team and doesnt need an edge like that to win. i was there and competed and would expect him to be one of the top competitors. PROVEN TRACK RECORD. god forbid someone has a question that someone doesnt agree with. i think you guys need to lighten up just a little bit.


Have you ever been to a judging class?
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chopshop



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff Hughes wrote:
chopshop wrote:
wow. i dont see him beating up on anyone. i see a legitimate question and a bunch of people jumping on the guy for asking. i understand what he saying. if he is telling them to look for this and look for that even if it is blind judging they might be looking for something comparable to what they saw at they class. i dont think that was the case in salisbury. chix swine and bovine is a great team and doesnt need an edge like that to win. i was there and competed and would expect him to be one of the top competitors. PROVEN TRACK RECORD. god forbid someone has a question that someone doesnt agree with. i think you guys need to lighten up just a little bit.


Have you ever been to a judging class?

yes as a matter of fact i have. i also have been competing for quite some time and have done pretty well. im saying that this guy wasn't claiming that the comp was rigged by a team teaching the class. im saying he feels that it is a conflict of interest. He's right. if he wasn't this conversation wouldn't be happening. If the class causes any doubt in another competitors mind then he's right. I also stated that chix swine and bovine def did not use the class to give himself an advantage, HE DOESN'T NEED IT. I have competed against him on numerous occasions and seen him win enough to know that he could cook. If the guy feels a certain way who cares let him feel it. but i guess when you speak your piece here you are told you know where the door is and i should know where to go. where is that? Back to my keyboard to have to write this nonsense. javascript:emoticon('Laughing')
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Jeff Hughes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He asked to be told he was wrong, we told him why he was wrong...

Who would you have cook for the class?

I'm not sure why your panties are in a wad, this was put to bed some time ago...
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SmokinOkie
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're wrong (you asked) Very Happy

You didn't say how many judges were at that class, but I don't think all of the judges for the weekend were there.

You were at the class, how did the food taste and what was the scores? I'll bet, likely every class given, there was the full range of scores given even though it's the same food (that's the funny thing).

I also don't think any new judge will remember the fine points of the food, there is just too much to process in a class.

Also, the rules KCBS gives the cook for that class make a number of critical appearance errors.

But having cooked a number of those myself, I don't, nor can't do my comp recipes for the class. Every class I've done, we've built at least 20 to 40 boxes and you're too busy just trying to get them out.

Is your scenario possible? Sure. Probably. Not likely.
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roksmith



Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28 10 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One way to avoid even the appearance of an issue like this, and something I came away from my judging class thinking they should have done, was to include visual aides in the class.
It could be as simple as handouts with photos of boxes that should rate a 9,8,7 and soforth. Thc class could then discuss why they would be rated this way and why.
This might lead to more consistant judging across the board.
A prime example was, in the class I took, a brisket box came thru and it looked pretty decent.. not a 9 or maybe even an 8, but one guy rated it a 4 on appearance. His only reason for rating it a 4 was because the brisket was sliced more than the width of a pencil thick.
Granted.. this was the portion of the class where we are supposed to be learning about how to score appearance.. but obviously since we were judging brisket, we had already judged several boxes.
Taste is something that can't be taught and will always be subject to regional preferences, but tenderness is fairly straightforward and appearance should be as well.
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