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My First Build - Updated Sept 19 - 2nd Test Cook
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killswitch505
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep that will do it lol
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rykymus, if I am not mistaken the white neutral wire should be where the bare ground is and the bare ground should be attached to the face plate of the receptacle. There should have been a dedicated green screw on the face plate for ground.
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day_trippr
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

k.a.m. wrote:
rykymus, if I am not mistaken the white neutral wire should be where the bare ground is and the bare ground should be attached to the face plate of the receptacle. There should have been a dedicated green screw on the face plate for ground.


Yikes! You're right, Kevin. Good eye!

Now, given what this alleged "electrician" has managed to accomplish so far, how much you want to bet that ought-to-be-the-neutral wire is actually connected to anything at the other end? Rolling Eyes

Cheers!
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rykymus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's working now. We did a few test welds on some scrap 1/4" at with some 6013 without any problems. The plug from the welder only has the three paddles, one being the ground. Not sure I want to open up the breaker panel to see if the white neutral is connected to anything. My father in law (who knows more about this kind of stuff than I) thinks it's fine. Should I call a (different) electrician out to look at it? Or leave it be since it's working?
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rykymus, I would call another electrician and let them inspect both ends of the circuit. I noticed this just by a pic on the web. If your second electrician say's it is wired wrong have him explain to you why and if you agree with him have him re-wire the circuit and get your money back from the first electrician.
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day_trippr
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should never ever be shipping current on a ground wire.
A wiring inspector would flog whomever was responsible for that.
I'd straighten it out because I couldn't live with it like that...

Cheers
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rykymus
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm gonna contact an old friend of mine from my stage lighting days. She's a great electrician and was in charge of rewiring all the massive dimmer racks in the theater's lighting system. (And that was some serious power, let me tell you.) I'm sure I can lure her over with the promise of some ribs Laughing Meanwhile, I ain't touching it.
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seattlepitboss
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rykymus wrote:
I'm gonna contact an old friend of mine from my stage lighting days. She's a great electrician and was in charge of rewiring all the massive dimmer racks in the theater's lighting system. (And that was some serious power, let me tell you.) I'm sure I can lure her over with the promise of some ribs Laughing Meanwhile, I ain't touching it.


Told ya it was the electrician! Smile
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JD Witt
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17 10 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I have to ask, "Is the female electrican HOT?" Razz Couldn't let that get by without throwing in a corny joke.
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Teleking
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 10 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

day_trippr wrote:
You should never ever be shipping current on a ground wire.
A wiring inspector would flog whomever was responsible for that.
I'd straighten it out because I couldn't live with it like that...

Cheers


That is 100% correct. I am not an electrician either but know enough to hurt myself. Wink In a 3 wire system the common (white) should be used. The ground is usually not as thick of a gauge wire as the power leads. Most laundry dryers are a 3 wire system with no ground.

Although I could never figure out why the common bar and the ground bar are bridged together in the fuse box.
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day_trippr
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 10 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could draw a picture of the typical 220vac two-phase distribution used for most premises, and note that each phase wrt "neutral" provides a 110vac branch only if the "neutral" is held at ground potential. If you disconnect a service panel's neutral bus bar from ground and let it "float", you'd then actually have 220vac across all of the 110vac outlets.

Really bad juju Wink

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rykymus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 10 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. My friend came by. (Sorry JD witt, she is not hot.) According to her, the outlet is wired correctly. She stated that code for a welder is not the same as for an appliance like a dryer. She stated that this welder only needs straight 220v, which is provided by the 2 - 110v hots. The neutral is only needed if the device needs to have 110v supplied to as well, like for the timers and such that dryers and ranges have. She demonstrated by testing the lines for me. Either hot plus neutral showed 110v. Either hot plus ground read 110v. The two hots together showed 220v. And the neutral plus ground read zero. She agreed that the guy who did the work was sloppy and should be smacked hard. But she insists that both ends of the circuit are correctly wired. (Just sloppy.) She even opened up the welder and tested it as well. (Apparently, she knows about welding as well.) She capped off the unused neutral with a wire nut and neatened up the wiring as she swore at the guy who didn't do it ocrrectly the first time. Incidently, she no longer works as an electrician. A few years ago she took a job with the county as a building inspector. So I'm confident I'm okay. On her way out she informed me that I owe her a rack of ribs. Very Happy Luckily, I didn't pay the first guy, just traded him some computer repair work. Perhaps I should send a bug his way? Twisted Evil
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k.a.m.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 10 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rykymus, I am glad you are in good shape Very Happy Now go build a cooker Very Happy
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keeper of the plains
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 10 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learn all kinds of stuff on the ring Surprised Have fun with that welder!
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killswitch505
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18 10 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you float a neutral normally one of the legs goes high and one goes low the potential never changes, except to ground. phase to phase will always be 220 so all you 220 stuff IE dyer, compressor, ac compressor, water heater, and welder will work just fine. now all your 110 stuff can and will get F’ed up been there done seen it Shocked


JD WITT "Is the female electrican HOT?"
ive been an electrican of a long time and i can say with out a doubt that no she was not Laughing and i dont even have to had seen her Very Happy
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day_trippr
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19 10 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, after reading the rest of the thread it makes sense to me that the original wiring - although done pretty poorly - was connected correctly. If all the load does is straddle the phases, the third wire should be the safety ground.

That said, I hope that the connector style used is specific to that type of application, so no mixed-voltage type device can be plugged into it...

Cheers
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Big Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20 10 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not positive, but no one mentioned if it IS wired incorrectly and a fire happens your insurance company won't cover damages. I may be wrong, but I have always thought of it this way to be safe.
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BRBBQ
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20 10 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read a post about some mississippi mud for marinating, I kind of pitured that stuff comming from tank, ooo!
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PullinSmoke
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22 10 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am soon starting my build with air compressor tank, I am watching
Thanks for posting
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rykymus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22 10 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I finally got the tank into my garage where we can work on it at will. We cut holes where the firebox and exhaust would go, then hauled her to the car wash and cleaned it out as best we could. Still gonna have to burn her out for sure. Got her back to the garage and up on stands. (Got the idea for wheels from someone else's build here. Sorry, I can't remember who.)
Next we're gonna degrease the outside of the tank, and cut/grind all the external nubs and do-hickies off. Then I'm gonna scrub off all the paint.

Ryk

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